If they come for your guns, do you have a responsibility to fight?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by CA357, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    I got a link to this article in an email from a friend today. It's food for thought and horrible that we should even have to contemplate such a thing. The link is posted at the end of the article.

    I feel a tremendous responsibility to write this article though I am a little apprehensive. Thinking about the possibility of rising up against our own government is a frightening thing for many of us. I am not Johnny Rambo and I will be the first to admit that I do not want to die. The reason I feel compelled to write this, however, is simply because I don’t think the average American is equipped with the facts. I feel that a lot of American citizens feel like they have no choice but to surrender their guns if the government comes for them. I blame traditional media sources for this mass brainwash and I carry the responsibility of all small independent bloggers to tell the truth. So my focus today is to lay out your constitutional rights as an American, and let you decide what to do with those rights.

    About a month ago I let the “democracy” word slip in a discussion with a fellow blogger. I know better. Americans have been conditioned to use this term. It’s not an accurate term and it never has been a correct term to describe our form of government. The truth is that the United States of America is a constitutional republic. This is similar to a democracy because our representatives are selected by democratic elections, but ultimately our representatives are required to work within the framework of our constitution. In other words, even if 90% of Americans want something that goes against our founding principles, they have no right to call for a violation of constitutional rights.

    If you are religious you might choose to think of it this way… Say that members of your congregation decide that mass fornication is a good thing. Do they have the right to change the teachings of your God? The truth is the truth. It doesn’t matter how many people try to stray from it. Did I just compare our founders to God? In a way I did, but please note that I am not trying to insult anyone. For the purpose of the American Government our constitution and founders who wrote it are much like God is to believers. It is the law. It is indisputable.

    Our founders did not want a “democracy” for they feared a true democracy was just as dangerous as a monarchy. The founders were highly educated people who were experienced in defending themselves against tyranny. They understood that the constitution could protect the people by limiting the power of anyone to work outside of it much better than a pure system of popularity. A system of checks and balances was set up to help limit corruption of government and also the potential for an “immoral majority” developing within the American People. We have forgotten in this country that we are ultimately ruled by a constitution.

    Why is a democracy potentially just as dangerous as a monarchy? Let’s look at something that Benjamin Franklin said because it answers that question more fully and succinctly than I can.

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin

    Even 230+ years ago our founders were perceptive enough to realize that democracy was a dangerous form of government. How so? Because the citizens of a country can become just as corrupt as any government. We have seen evidence of this throughout history. Ask Native Americans and African-Americans if this population can become corrupt.

    I think in 2012 we are seeing evidence of what Franklin was trying to tell us. Just because a majority of people may support certain ideas it does not mean that those ideas are just. In simple terms, just because most Americans love our president and voted for him, it does not mean that he has the power to go against our constitutional rights.

    Next I’d like to review the text of the second amendment. It is very clear. This is the law of this land. So when Senator Feinstein or President Obama talk about taking your guns, you need to think about something. Are they honoring their sworn oath to uphold the constitution?

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    This is a pretty clear statement. The fact is that it took 232 years for the Supreme Court to even rule on this amendment because it has never been successfully challenged. In 2008 a case of Columbia v. Heller the Supreme Court ruled that a handgun ban in Washington D.C. was unconstitutional. One also has to take this into consideration. The Supreme Court supports your right to own guns. If you want to research this decision further you can start here.

    For those who try to debate the spirit of the 2nd amendment, they are truly no different from people who will try to take Biblical quotes out of context to try to support their immoral decisions. The founders were very clear on the intent of the 2nd amendment. Let me share a few quick quotes here:

    The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -Thomas Jefferson

    Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference – they deserve a place of honor with all that is good. -George Washington

    The Constitution shall never be construed….to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -Samuel Adams

    I could find hundreds of quotes like these. This country was built on the right to bear arms. It was built on the rights of an individual to bear arms, regardless of what his government or neighbor happened to think. This is crystal clear. Ironically the people who voice their opinions against this right have their free speech protected by your guns. Without guns in this country, all other amendments become null and void, simply because “We the People” will lose our power of enforcement.

    We need to keep this in mind as our “representatives” try to push gun bans. I don’t care if 99% of people are in support of gun bans (which is far from the case), it is a violation of our constitutional rights, plain and simple.

    A constitutional republic protects the rights of the individual even when their ideas are very much in the minority. If I were the only person in America who believed in the 2nd amendment, I would still be within my rights to call upon it. You would all think I was insane and possibly celebrate if I was gunned down, but in the end I would be the only true American among us.

    Our framers were very clear on this. If my government comes to take my guns, they are violating one of my constitutional rights that is covered by the 2nd amendment.

    It is not my right, at that point, but my responsibility to respond in the name of liberty. What I am telling you is something that many are trying to soft sell, and many others have tried to avoid putting into print, but I am going to say it. The time for speaking in code is over.

    If they come for our guns then it is our constitutional right to put them six feet under. You have the right to kill any representative of this government who tries to tread on your liberty. I am thinking about self-defense and not talking about inciting a revolution. Re-read Jefferson’s quote. He talks about a “last resort.” I am not trying to start a Revolt, I am talking about self-defense. If the day for Revolution comes, when no peaceful options exist, we may have to talk about that as well. None of us wants to think about that, but please understand that a majority can not take away your rights as an American citizen. Only you can choose to give up your rights.

    Congress could pass gun ban legislation by a 90%+ margin and it just would not matter. I think some people are very unclear on this. This is the reason we have a Supreme Court, and though I do not doubt that the Supreme Court can also become corrupt, in 2008 they got it right. They supported the constitution. It does not matter what the majority supports because America is not a democracy. A constitutional republic protects the rights of every single citizen, no matter what their “elected servants” say. A majority in America only matters when the constitution is not in play.

    I just wrote what every believer in the constitution wants to say, and what every constitutional blogger needs to write. The truth of the matter is that this type of speech is viewed as dangerous and radical or subversive, and it could gain me a world of trouble that I do not want. It is also the truth. To make myself clear I will tell you again. If they come for your guns it is your right to use those guns against them and to kill them. You are protected by our constitution.

    Most of the articles I am reading on the subject are trying to give you clues without just coming out and saying it. I understand that because certain things in this country will get you on a list that you don’t want to be on. I may well be on that list. This blog is small and growing so I may not be there yet, but I have dreams. I also have my own list of subversives and anyone who attempts to deny my constitutional rights is on that list.

    I am not the “subversive” here, it is the political representatives who are threatening to take away my inalienable rights. If they come to take my guns and I leave a few of them wounded or dead, and I somehow survive, I have zero doubt that I will spend a long time in prison and may face an execution. But I would much rather be a political prisoner than a slave.

    If I go down fighting then I was not fighting to harm these human beings. I was simply defending my liberty and yours. It is self-defense and it is what our country was built on. We won our freedom in self-defense. We would not be ruled by a tyrannical government in the 1770′s and we will not be ruled in 2012 by a tyrannical government. There is no difference.

    This is a case of right and wrong. As of now the 2nd amendment stands. It has never been repealed. If Feinstein or Barack have a problem with the constitution then they should be removed from office. They are not defending the constitution which they have sworn an oath to protect. It is treasonous to say the least. They would likely say the same about me, but I have the constitution, the founders, and the supreme court on my side. They only have their inflated egos.

    I am not writing this to incite people. I am writing this in hopes that somehow I can make a tiny difference. I have no idea how many of my neighbors have the will to defend their constitutional rights. 2%? 20%? I am afraid that 20% is a high number, unfortunately. When push comes to shove many people may give up and submit to being ruled. I believe that our government is banking on this.

    What I do know is that this country was founded by people who had balls the size of Texas and Patriotic Americans take **** off of no one, especially our own government. For evidence of that, you might research the Revolutionary War. My question is how many Patriots are left?

    I would hope that our officials come to realize that, regardless of our numbers, we still exist because they are calling Patriotic Americans to action. They are making us decide if we want to die free or submit to their rule. I can not tell you where you should stand on that. I do know that it may make the difference between living a life of freedom or slavery.

    You must start thinking about this because I believe that the day is coming soon and I personally believe it has already been planned. Not all conspiracy theories are hogwash. They may throw down the gauntlet soon and my suggestion is that you prepare yourself to react.

    I mean no disrespect to our elected officials but they need to understand that “We the People” will not be disarmed. If they proceed then it is they that are provoking us and we will act accordingly. We are within our rights to do so.

    For those who are in support of taking the guns, you need to ask yourself a very important question, and I am not just talking about the politicians, because if you support them, you have chosen your side.

    Are you willing to die to take my guns?

    Link: http://dcclothesline.wordpress.com/...r-guns-do-you-have-a-responsibility-to-fight/
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  2. CaseyChadwell

    CaseyChadwell New Member

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    I seen this a while back. Its a great read and has very good points.

    When push comes to shove I think the question everyone must ask in deciding whether to fight if this ever happens is this: do you wish to see your kids, grandkids, neices, nephews or friends and other family grow up in an America that isn't what it was designed to be? If the answer to that's zis no, then I think one must consider fighting for the rights that so many have fought and died for in the past. It is our responsibility to fight for our rights. We can not expect soldiers or politicians to fight for our god given rights. If the time comes, it is a personal choice. But keep in mind, the fight won't last long...either the tyrannical government will give in when they see mass people revolting, or the dron. Strikes will get ya. The chances of Obama allowing it to be any kind of a fair fight are slim and none. I have come to the realization that if it comes to that, I will be meeting my maker, walking on streets made of gold. The way I see it, there's not a bad way for this to end for me, with the faith I have. It will either be winning or heaven...kinda ok with those options.

    With that said, all Americans and all gun owners should be Doing anything and everything we can do to keep that from happening. Just my two cents guys...hope I don't ruffle any feathers.
     

  3. fireguy

    fireguy New Member

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    It is up to us to make the constitution stand.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    'Nuff said...;)
     

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  5. StainlessSteel215

    StainlessSteel215 New Member

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    Wont happen guys, relax. Dont sound the alarm over speculation.
    A few stupid regs on hi cap mags and military features on semi rifles....is not worth a freaking revolution. Doubt much of this will ever pass anyways - too many roadblocks and nobody other than a few extreme libs want to see new gun laws
     
  6. potentialglock

    potentialglock New Member

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    See? You're the problem! You're willing to let your rights be whittled down little by little and pretend its not happening
     
  7. CaseyChadwell

    CaseyChadwell New Member

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    Do I think that black suv's will pull up in front of my house tomorrow to take my small amount of weapons? No I do not. Do I think I will see a day in my life where I am forced to take a stand with a rifle in one hand and the American flag in the other? Most likely not in my lifetime. However, I do fear that the government will attempt to riddle my rights down little by little to eventually see my children disarmed. I want my children to grow up in a America that Is better than the one I grew up in, I think all people want that. I may have different views for my America than liberals, but they're my views...they can't help it they're wrong. :)

    We need to do what we can do now in order to preserve the rights that we were given by god and the lives of all the Americans that died protecting and preserving those rights. At this juncture, I think our best bet is to use the most dangerous and feared weapon we have in our arsenal (to the politicians), our vote. The fat cats in Washington and in your state capital love us paying them with our tax dollars for doing nothing, they will not vote on legislation if it means their fat checks will stop coming. Money talks and bs walks, they can say what they want, but when we let them know that they will be losing votes, they'll change their minds.

    As of today, the pen is still mightier than the sword. Maybe one day in the future we will see a day when we have to use that sword, but let's hope not.
     
  8. RUG3R44

    RUG3R44 New Member

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    Works for me.
     
  9. StainlessSteel215

    StainlessSteel215 New Member

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    No. Ive done my part. Emailed many senators, local state reps, and signed COUNTLESS petitions. Ive spent hours and hours posting on Facebook and arguiing with numbskulls. Dont you DARE call me part of a problem fella.

    This thread is about a bloody revolution against government trying to snatch up people's guns. Aint happening, and if it did I think these small limitations are NOT worth an all out revolt. A gun grab would never happen. Come back to reality.
     
  10. wechols

    wechols Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Zig ziglar tells about how a frog put in cool water on a stove will slowly be lulled to sleep as the water warms. It will cook him. Don't be lulled into complacency by gradual infringements. Keep the battle hot at the fringe.
     
  11. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We all need to adopt the NH state motto:

    LIVE FREE OR DIE:mad:
     
  12. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    The politicians have taken things away from us a little at a time.
    They have also pushed things on us that were not necessary.
    They know where the trouble spots are, and who will create problems.

    To think that they won't try to do something is inane. Ruby Ridge, Kent State, Waco, and that kid, Elian, in Miami (remember the pics?)

    Why do they consider that they have Personal Defense Weapons (that can go full-auto), but civilians have Assault Rifles (even when those are semi-auto only)?

    There was a story I heard about terrorists abroad. The idea was "Not my problem" when something happened overseas, "Not my problem" was the key phrase until the terrorists tried to attack the story teller at home. By that time, it was too late and there was no one there to help with his problem.
     
  13. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    Fighting to keep your guns isn’t going to make the difference.

    I understand the purpose of the 2A, but the reality is that the population’s only real defense against governmental tyranny is if enough of the population cycles through the armed services so that the rank & file don’t view themselves as a separate class. This separate class of ‘overlords’ is what you have/had in Syria, Egypt, Libya, Burma, assorted Banana Republics, etc.

    If that ever happens here, the battle is lost. The prospect for successfully resisting and beating the US military, on its home ground, by an informal force of civilians with AR 15s is ludicrous. That said, it's possible the cost of maintaining its control could be made very high, contributing to the tyranny's eventual collapse, eventually.

    If there is going to be resistance to that kind of tyranny by ‘our’ armed forces against our population, its successful tactic isn’t going to be fire fights, it’s going to be bombs. See Northern Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. for details.

    I say this because of what I see on the news.
    (And also because of the stats I’ve found from ‘The Annual of Surgery’ June 2007, too.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1876965/).


    Not counting PTSD related suicide, the numbers are (n=3707):
    55% of our causalities are from explosive devices (IEDs, RPGs, etc.);
    33% are from aircraft crashes (no breakdown between being shot down from ‘just’ crashing);
    19% from gunshot wounds;
    15% vehicle accidents, non-combat related;
    9% Falls. (Falls!?)

    Note: we have almost as many people dying from auto accidents as gunshot wounds. This is not because there is any scarcity of AK 47s I don’t think.

    Basically, fighting to keep your AR 15 isn’t going to make the difference.

    Frankly if it comes to civil war, that’s not a nightmare I want to live through anyway.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  14. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    I posted this because it makes sense to me and is excellent food for thought. I am not personally advocating violence against the government just because I posted it. The article is well written and spells out some facts that either go unnoticed or are unknown by some. I look how far our liberty has deteriorated in the 63 years I've been alive and I see no end to it. Either through venality, sloth or ignorance, our citizens are trading freedom for tyranny. Whether it's for a free ride, apathy, government subsidy or what passes for security, Americans have lost sight of what makes this country these United States of America.
     
  15. Ruger22lr

    Ruger22lr New Member

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    If you let them ban one type of gun just because of it's looks and think they won't go after your deer rifle you are absolutely wrong. It will happen shortly after and you will be thinking why didn't I stand up and fight back?
     
  16. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    And I appreciate it.

    Until the restrictions by a government, outweigh the benefits from a government, I don’t think a population would consider it a tyranny. Overbearing? Sure. Less that efficient? Yes. Tyrannical? Not yet, not by a long shot.
     
  17. chuckusaret

    chuckusaret Member

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    If all has failed and they come for our guns, based on my signature, the only way is to stand and fight.
     
  18. fireguy

    fireguy New Member

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    I don't advocate revolution, hopefully the time for that will never come. Unfortunately unless our rights are excercised and defended strongly now, they are sure to wither, weaken and die. This is what I think many people who practice open firearm carry in cities are demonstrating, power to them, I say.
     
  19. xd40man

    xd40man New Member

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    I do agree with this article, it is so hard to get the permit and easy to get your gun taken. But yet as a legal gun owner we suffer the consequences of the illegal gun owners actions. NY state wants every gun owner who has a weapon that hold 30, 10 round clipps to sell them to out of towners or turn them in to local police agencies. WOW, gang members and drug dealers will rush to turn in or sell theirs. Veterans aswell as civilians all need to stand-up and take back thier government. The Black Panthers always shouted power to the people. Deos anyone know what that means.
    For example many people here in NY are really upset how cuomo and the state senate proposed and voted on this new gun law without any public forum no nothing, which is a violation of our rights in government and if one look at it many states violate the second amendment. 7 rounds cuomo the homo says next yr its going to be five then 4 when will this end.


     
  20. xd40man

    xd40man New Member

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    I do agree with this article, it is so hard to get the permit and easy to get your gun taken. But yet as a legal gun owner we suffer the consequences of the illegal gun owners actions. NY state wants every gun owner who has a weapon that hold 30, 10 round clipps to sell them to out of towners or turn them in to local police agencies. WOW, gang members and drug dealers will rush to turn in or sell theirs. Veterans aswell as civilians all need to stand-up and take back thier government. The Black Panthers always shouted power to the people. Deos anyone know what that means.
    For example many people here in NY are really upset how cuomo and the state senate proposed and voted on this new gun law without any public forum no nothing, which is a violation of our rights in government and if one look at it many states violate the second amendment. 7 rounds cuomo the homo says next yr its going to be five then 4 when will this end.