then WHY is a 000 buck blast any more effective than a magful of 380's, hmm? We all know that the 12 ga blast IS more effective, but it CAN'T be due to blood loss or loss of organ function, cause those things don't take effect instantly, but the buck blast DOES (almost always, but not quite). If it takes blood loss or loss of a vital organ to make men stop, why does a solid kick to the jewels put you on the ground, hmm? There's no blood loss, no vital organ damage, but you're still lying there. I'll be happy to kick you there to prove this point, if you really want to dispute it. My front snapkick still breaks (with the grain) pine 2 x 12's. ( held at groin height). Many have been "brushed" (in a manner of speaking) in the groin, and "think" that they've been kicked in the gonads. However, a proper strike will require testicle removal, because they'll be completely crushed, and gangrene infection from the destroyed tissues will probably kill you. They'll get smashed between your pelvic bone and the "ball" of my foot. Might as well be a hammer and anvil, for all the "give" inherrent in this strike. The issue with handgun ammo is that typical loads aint GOT enough energy to cause much (if any) shock and the jhp's typically don't expand in flesh (proven on animals). Care to make some stupid claim that animal tissue and blood is somehow different than human tissue and blood? When you get up around .22 Hornet rifle impact power (ie, 700 +ft lbs) you can definitely see more effect on critters than when you shoot them with 230 gr .45 jhp's (from a commander).