Idiot With A Gun

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by Vikingdad, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. AIKIJUTSU

    AIKIJUTSU New Member

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    From reading the article, I find that 1 percent of the permit holders committed a crime. What is the percentage for the general population? I'll bet it is more than 1 percent.
     

  2. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Oh yeah, it's messed up. It happened two years ago though, and it's also published by the NYTimes, who I wouldn't put it past to publish an outright lie. I'm not saying that's what they did, but they are one of the most anti gun media outlets there is, and they hold themselves to about the same moral standards as our government.
     
  3. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yep, leave it to the ultra-liberal New York Times to demagogue against concealed carry.
     
  4. Georgiahunter

    Georgiahunter New Member

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    They just used a rare event to attack guns and the second amendment. Did they count how many lives were saved because of a person with a ccw? No. I believe the idiot would have tried to kill the bicycler even if he didn't have a gun. Just another example of liberals using out of context facts to attack the pro-gunners.
     
  5. AIKIJUTSU

    AIKIJUTSU New Member

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    Are those media turkeys totally stupid, are they dreamers who try to make their fantasies of a Heaven on Earth come true by telling everyone to "be nice" to each other, disarm themselves, and then everybody will just behave? Or are they puppets for a government out of control that is trying to turn the U.S. into a 3rd world dictatorship? If the situation in the story was really as it was told, the clown with the gun must have slipped through the cracks. But who knows, maybe he shot the "victim" because the "victim" threatened his life, and that part of the story was intentionally omitted from the story. The media never lets the truth get in the way when they have a point to make.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2012
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

    Murder in NC is down 3.9%. There were 468 murders in NC- 8 committed by a CCW holder with a gun. That mean 460 by others, right? If my math is right, you are 58 times more likely to be attacked by someone WITHOUT a CCW. BTW, New York City- the "Gun Free Zone"- had 229 murders in the same period. How's that happen?

    Is the permit system in NC flawed? Yes- the cases they quoted were people already prohibited by Federal law from possessing a firearm- never mind carrying concealed. And the state needs to fix that. But the rate of crimes by a CCW holder is FAR less than 1%.
     
  7. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    It begs the question could they not find a more recent example of a CCW permit holder acting in an irresponsible manner?
     
  8. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    C3,
    Could you please cite your source? Also, you state "Murder in NC is down 3.9%", as compared to what exactly? Pre shall-issue NC statistics? Also, what is the margin of error on those statistics? 3.9% could be within the margin of error. Regardless it is not that big of an improvement in my opinion.

    Your inclusion of NYC murder statistics doesn't make sense to me. Gun-free Zone NYC has half the murders. How do the populations compare? How many of those murders were committed with a firearm? It stands to reason (the way I see it) that it would be much lower if there were more people with CCW's (or any for that matter). Either way I don't see there to be any comparison between NYC and NC statistics. Too many variables.
     
  9. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    I'm always tempted to ask people if they're willing to put their money where their mouth is when they present data like that to influence opinion.

    Wager:
    I’ll give the NYTs $10 for everyone with a CCW who’s committed a crime;
    but the NYTs has to give me $1 for everyone with a CCW who hasn’t committed a crime.
    10:1 odds, think they’ll accept?

    How about at 100:1?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2012
  10. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Dad- source is the FBI Uniform Crime Report, down 3.9 % over past year- number has been shrinking for some time. My point on NYC- article seems to espouse that guns are the problem- if so, why does NYC - where legal gun ownership is rare- have that many murders?
     
  11. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    simple, NYC restricts law abiding citizens access to firearms and CCW for self defence, but allows the criminals to have them! another argument that gun control doesn't work and never will.
     
  12. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    Oh. OK. That makes more sense then. I expect that the FBI statistic is a 2009-2010 comparison since 2011 just ended.
     
  13. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    What a f#(king idiot.

    American laws are put into place to punish the law abiding vast majority for the actions of the minute minority whose parents simply didn't love them enough.
     
  14. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    (All averages are per 100k people.)

    The US gun homicide rate is 3.6. The NY State gun homicide is 2.67.

    Starting in 2005, New York City achieved the lowest crime rate among the ten largest cities in the United States. Zeranski, Todd (2006-06-12). "NYC Is Safest City as Crime Rises in U.S., FBI Say". Bloomberg News. Retrieved 2006-10-30.
    The '08 NYC homocide rate is 6.8. This includes everything, guns, knives, bats, hands, curses, etc. I couldn't find a breakdown by weapon.

    From someone's post on the ‘Ccw and crime’ thread:

    As far as correlation between gun violence and regulations:
    Among states without restrictive firearm regulations;
    New Hampshire has the lowest gun violence rates per 100k people at 0.43.
    Louisiana is the highest with 10.13.

    Among states with restrictive firearms regulation;
    California has the fourth highest gun violence rate at 4.82.
    Hawaii has the third lowest with 0.54, right after NH & VT.

    (Figures from various recent years of FBI stats, the Brady website, CDC., etc.)

    Personally I think there is a higher correlation between gun violence and population density regardless of the level of regulation.

    Not exactly.

    The following is from a pie chart I can’t find again, but this is what I recall:
    Something like 60-70% of gun violence is between family and ‘friends’;
    Another 10-15% are suicides;
    The next largest group is accidents;
    AND THE SMALLEST
    number of homicides were good guy bad guy confrontations, police and self-defense.

    The point of the (NYC) gun regulations is primarily to limit the first bunch of stupid idiots who can’t control their temper from killing their family & friends, not to prevent citizens from defending themselves. That’s just a side effect.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2012
  15. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Vincine- purely anecdotal- long time friend worked in the prison system. We were discussing long term inmates, personalities. He indicated that in general, murderers were a nicer class of inmate :)eek:!!).

    When I pressed him he explained- frequently had never committed any other crime, killed someone they knew, were remorseful. NOT to be confused with the psychopath that killed for the thrill.

    And if you find any data on the number of deaths attributed to curses (include hexes, voodoo, and negative vibes) keep us posted, will ya? :D
     
  16. pagj17

    pagj17 New Member

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    Oh but that's because other states don't have gun control, and that evil Gun show loophole lets you just bring guns right in to NYC :rollseyes:
     
  17. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

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    Whenever I think of NYC, I think of Kitty Genovese.
     
  18. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

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    FBI stats (you can google this and find it for yourself) tell us that you are twice as likely to be killed by someone that you know versus a stranger.

    Ergo, the less people you know, the more safe you are.

    Tobacco still kills more people than everything else added together however.

    Traffic is in 2nd place.

    Then a whole host of other diseases.

    AIDS is still a 100% killer, only it kills slowly, taking up to 15 years, while it spreads within the sexually active and needle sharing communities.

    But the potentially most dangerous virus is the influenza virus. We are long overdue for a major plague.

    So murder is probably the least of your worries.

    Don't worry, be happy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  19. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    When I interviewed for a RN position at an FCI. the doctor said the same thing. She said about half the inmates had the ‘criminal mind’, the other half did the wrong thing, in the wrong place, at the wrong time, once. (I didn't pursue the position, I was already working nights.)

    Because of this I’m of the opinion that the punishment should fit the criminal NOT the crime. That there is more of a threat to the population from career criminals who’s ‘job’ is robbery, even if they haven’t actually killed anyone, than from murders who found their spouse in bed with someone else and lost it onetime.

    Transylvania was one the most crime free places in Europe at one time. You could leave a gold cup at the town fountain and it be still be there a year later. The civil government was also notably corruption free. It was because Vlad would impale thieves alive on poles. I think the murder rate was pretty low too, except for him.

    As far as curses go, there’s some powerful mojo in various corners of NYC. I’m of Sicilian decent and the family knows a few curses. Consequently I grew up in one of the most crime free places Queens. That we were around the corner from an ‘Italian Business Mens' Social club’ had absolutely nothing to do with it, nothing. Gabish? :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012