ID this rifle if you can

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by GeneralPatton, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

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    This rifle comes from a collection of a friend of mines grandfather. He passed away leaving my buddies dad a quite hefty collection of shotguns, with a few odd balls. This one, we are to assume, was a project of the old man. The stock has been "painted" in a bronze wood type color. The barrel appears to be the original finish. There are several marks on the barrel, nothing I found to aid me in what it is. But given the odd trigger guard, and the fact it has 2 triggers and one barrel, I figure maybe someone has seen such before. Here's a few shots I have. I have no others available at this time.
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    Anyone have any ideas? I don't even know what caliber it is, though from the size it appears to have some beef to it. :confused:
     

  2. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

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  3. kytowboater

    kytowboater Active Member

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    Two triggers could be one is a "set" trigger.
     
  4. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

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    My guess would be a WWI Mauser that was sporterized after the War by a custom gun maker. Double triggers would have been added along with what I assume are quick detach mounts for a scope. There should be a really nice set of custom rings somewhere to go with those mounts?

    Very nice rifle! :)
     
  5. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Mannlicher action custom builder. Double set triggers. Pull the back one to set and the front trigger fires. Turns it into a hair trigger. Normal trigger if you dont set it. Mounts on the receiver are for a claw type scope rings. Caliber would be guesswork. Slug the bore or have a chamber cast done. The forward bolt handle and open rear receiver is typical of Mannlicher.
     
  6. hiwall

    hiwall Active Member

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    It is a custom rifle. So no one is going to say "Oh, thats a model 78, I had one just like it." Custom means custom. I'm sure the builder bought the action and made the rest. Too bad he put those ugly mounts on there. Yes, I know those mounts are fairly common over there. Get a chamber cast and go out to the range with that thing!
     
  7. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    After WWI germans still made great rifles, but not in 8x57. Suhl is a great rifle, it is a a Mauser action that has been heavily modified. The offset claw mount is very interesting, I've never seen one. 2,75 usually is the cartridge or case length, most were 11mm rifles. 1st could be 11mm Belgian Comblain The other choices are limitless. .45-70 is an 11mm.
     
  8. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Dug up more info. In Suhl Many Commision 88 rifles (guild) were built for sporting purposes. You do have a '88 style rifle. The average manufacture date is 1896. It should have the date stamped on it.
     
  9. BillM

    BillM Active Member Supporter

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    It's a custom gun.

    Built by CG Haenel They have been building guns since 1840.

    Suhl Germany is the city where CG Haenel is located

    The rifle is based on a Mauser 1888 Commission rifle, with LOTS
    of custom additions and refinements.

    Good luck finding the scope mount that fits it---they were pretty
    much custom built to the gun.

    Caliber---no guess. Have a chamber cast done and start measuring.

    I'll bet that under that copper paint there is a REALLY nice piece
    of wood.:)
     
  10. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

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    Thanks for all the replies guys. I'm trying to get the info for the new owner, who is likely wanting to sell it. I'll take all this and put it together and let him know what it is, or what is was prior to all the customizations.
     
  11. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    To the excellent answers above, I can only add that BOHLER STAHL was the designation of a very high grade of German steel used for rifle barrels.
     
  12. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes. Bohler is a steel company.
     
  13. BillM

    BillM Active Member Supporter

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    The more I look at the pics the less I think the stock is original.

    The medallion on the side and the plates for the wedge are on the
    surface---an original would probably have them inletted flush.

    The shape of the stock just doesn't look right for a hundred+
    year old european stock.

    It might be original wood, but someone has spent considerable time
    tarting it up, and not in a good way.

    Still a fantastic piece of work on the metal parts:)
     
  14. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

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    Anything could be possible. The sad thing is, the one person who knew is no longer living, thus we may never know the real story. I know that it was considered his "project" gun. We do know that he refinished the stock.....perhaps he sanded it down to much where the medallions are, seeing as they do have a slightly countersunk appearance. Of course, simply finding a more original stock and putting the barrel on it may work. Who knows. I'm supposed to catch up with my buddies dad who has them this week to give him some values on all the stuff he inherited. Maybe I'll get him to leave that one here so I can do some more in depth research on it. The old man left him some great stuff. Here's what I had written down:

    Remington 870 Express Magnum with second barrel 12ga
    Remington 870 Express 12ga
    Remington 550-1 .22 with original scope
    Interarms .22 ATD
    Mossburg 835 Ulti-Mag with second barrel 12 ga
    Remington 760 30.06 Pump action
    Winchester 1200 12ga
    A little H&R .32 revolver
    A Colt Dragoon copy from the 1950's
    A S&W .38 Revolver from 1988--looks like the early tries into the works of concealing the hammer for pocket carry smoothness. I think it's a model 49. Nickel plated nice wood grips. Never been fired. Stored in a little padded case since new. I checked it out and it's got that new, crisp action and the rounds that are in it look like they were put in it the day it was bought, and never thought about thereafter.

    He got a nice collection either way. He's hell bent on paying me for aiding him in values and perhaps sale of a couple of them, but I was like it's no big deal, I just like to get to see the collections of others. That's payment enough for me.

    There were a couple more I didn't write down as he wasn't interested in selling.
     
  15. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Ask for the rifle in exchange for your services.
     
  16. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

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    Heh. I didn't intend on getting anything. I just like seeing it all. But he did tell me his dad would probably do something like tell me to pick one. I wouldn't pick the rifle, it's likely the most valuable one there. But I'd take one of those 870's for sure :D
     
  17. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Gewehr 88 was based on the Mannlicher and Mauser actions, mostly Mannlicher. The safety has been changed along with the addition of the double set triggers. Obviously not a standard barrel for an 88. The stock looks to be very well fit but there is a lot of proud metal indicating it was heavily sanded when it was refinished. That refinish took away a lot of any value it had. Unless the barrel is shot out which I doubt, leave it alone. It will require hand loading once you find out the correct cartridge and a supply of brass. Hopefully the brass can be made from an existing cartridge. It is a very nice old gun. Leave it that way.
     
  18. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    I'm not sure the stock is sanded at all. On many custom guns of that era, the medalions are on the surface, not inletted. If the sides of the ornamentation are rounded, it would be correct. I have a guy in Austria that could ID it and have a mount made for it. Go over to K98k.com, Robert is the man when it comes to mounts. It is his forum. Bet he would want to buy it. http://www.k98k.com/forum/index.php
    Another sight to check:
    http://forums.gunboards.com/forum.php
     
  19. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

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    I gotta say here, I don't think the metal has been refinished. I saw it in person, and handled it. There was no indication to me that any modification had been made to the barrel. It has some light surface rust, mostly just a aged patina look. I do not believe that he modified it. His work was far from high quality on the stock, and I'd imagine that if he attempted the metal work it would show.