I Suck Bad

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by Benning Boy, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    I can draw a smiley face in a paper plate at 20 yards. I've got skills.

    So I decide to do this drill I see on this DVD. Basically double tap in two squares, and single shots in smaller numbered shapes, at a partners call, at six feet. Should be cake.

    Not so much. While I hit a reasonable number of spots in a less reasonable time, I can't resist the urge to aim. This slows me considerably.

    It's almost like training for accuracy has become a detriment to my ability to just point and pop.

    Has anybody else encountered this?
     
  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    I need to practice point shooting. My aiming will probably get in the way as well. Another issue is that at the ranges I frequent, no handguns in holsters! How can a person practice drawing and shooting that way?
     

  3. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    I've noticed the same thing. Reaction shooting is a different skill set than target shooting (trying to make small pretty groups). Being older with crappy eyes, pure target shooting isn't as fun as it was in my youth. At this point in my life, most of the shooting I do is reaction type.

    I love bowling pin shoots and to be competitive you have to knock 5 pins off the table in say 6 seconds or less. Since the goal is to knock the pin off the table, with authority, you need a COM hit as they're heavy devils. This requires that you hit a roughly 3x3 area of each pin at 7 yards very consistently - and quickly. Not to much true aiming is involved really as it's mostly instinctive.

    I do pretty well at these and I've won my fair share of them so most of my range time is practicing this type of shooting. I rarely even try to shoot tight groups anymore, I focus on staying inside the 8-9 ring bringing the gun up from a 45 degree angle and snapping them off. I generally hang 2 targets and alternate between them...
     
  4. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Take the best long range rifle shooter at the club- blend with a 12 g O/U, and fold in assorted clay pigeons. Place in an 80 degree sporting clays range, and wait for humiliation to set in. Tears of frustration are a sign that you have stirred the pot too long............


    The very things that made him (or her) an excellent long range rifle shooter will work agaist him in point shooting skeet, trap, or sporting clays. Can be fun to watch if you like seeing grown men weep.
     
  5. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    So which skill set to focus on?

    I'm not sure I visualized/fantasized about scenarios where I might have to draw down on a bad guy, so I never thought about the possibility of 6 feet.
    Changed everything.

    This was just crazy. I could cover 6 feet and kick you faster than I could get the second shot out accurately.:mad:
     
  6. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Find an IDPA league in your area as they focus on draw and fire types of shooting. I haven't tried it yet but we have an active league here and I've watched a few matches.

    If you ever try out a bowling pin shoot - I guarantee you'll be hooked...
     
  7. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Focus on 21 feet max distance for point and shoot BB. You are correct in that most assaults take place within less than 10 foot perimeter. That is why one needs some hands-on self defense skills. Not everything needs to be settled with a firearm, as you well know. :)

    Jack
     
  8. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    So at what distance is it possibly detrimental to draw? 21 feet seems reasonable, but it seems the benefit shrinks in concert with the distance.

    And yet the threat increases as the distance closes.

    I'm so lost.:(
     
  9. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Ok, I will give you my opinion here of rules of engagement. Someone else may have a different one. If you have a BG within 21 feet or less with a firearm and you feel he is a lethal threat to you, cap the prick. You cannot outrun or hand fight a bullet. If the BG is holding a knife, crowbar, or a stick, he will have to get close enough in order to use these weapons. If you feel that you can physically handle and disarm this attack, without using a firearm, then "whoop some ass." Most would brandish their firearm and say "make my day, punk" and in most instances, the BG either gets shot, if decides to continue forward or runs off. Either way you were in fear for your life and felt you were in a life-threatening situation and were 99.9% right and legal in your response. Now in some states, it's that .01% that is sometimes questioned. Here in Oklahoma, no problem, you get a parade and key to the city. :)

    Jack
     
  10. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    I'm replying only because whoever responds last to this shows up on the main page as "I suck bad, by_____", and I know IGETEVEN is getting antsy.:D

    Good stuff, though.:cool:
     
  11. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I ran this drill about 20 or 25 times when I went to Valhalla.

    The instructor would bark out a number, or a shape as the target had both, and I would draw and be required to empty between 2 and 5 rounds into that shape.

    At first it was very hard, and I was struggling. I was aiming even though I found the target well ahead of getting the weapon up and smoking.

    The instructor, Brad S in case Rob Pincus stops by :D, stopped me from drawing and just had me hold the weapon at High Chest Center. Press out on his command of a shape or number, and do a quick double tap.

    Then we progressed to multiple shots, and then multiple targets, BEFORE we went back to holstering the weapon and drawing for engagement.

    After I got the hang of just finding the target indicated and putting rounds on target, it became much easier.

    When I went back to drawing, I was again a bit slow, but Brad just started stepping into my shoe with his foot as I was drawing my weapon. For some reason, as his foot encountered my foot, I shifted weight ever so slightly and I wasn't "thinking" about the target, site, shot - I was just drawing, acquiring and shooting.

    After a few times of doing it that way, I was nailing everything he called out and was able to get by the mental block of "having" to aim....

    It just takes some practice and some good, conscious training.... My Friend.

    JD
     
  12. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    +1 JD

    I agree that its hard to overcome the urge to aim every shot and put them all in a nice quarter size hole, but when i went to the police academy the instructors there were great because they basically tought us to forget about the rear sight and baiscally use the front sight or just the front of the weapon for anything under 15 yards. They also made me think what is the point of a nice tight group when it comes to combat? Why put all your bullets in 1 hole? if u hit person on a double tap and ur second shot is 4 inches away from the first one then good you have probably disrupted function in another vital organ
     
  13. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    That is really an excellent point Hot Sauce!

    The guy I work with in the shop is one of the best pistol and rifle shooters I have ever been around. He should be, he grew up in a gun shop, grew up hunting in Indiana, spent 3 years in the army, then joined the Navy and went into the teams. Bottom line, the guy can flat shoot.

    So, we were at the range one day and we were shooting pistols. Both of us have full size 1911's and we are shooting for points at 10 yards for who gets to pay for lunch. I always lose, but the competition is fun.

    So, I ask him to show me one of those famous double taps where the bullet holes are touching.

    First two rounds are about an inch and half apart. Then he gets serious.

    *BAM-BAM* - A quick one-two and the holes were within an 1/8th of an inch of each other. It was damn impressive.

    Then he clicks the safety on and says "For whatever good that will do you". :eek:

    I was shocked, I thought that was the whole point of a double tap. He said that was conventional wisdom and people will brag about being able to do it.

    Then he tells me that the ideal double tap, in a force on force scenario, has the first round entering low, around the bottom of the sternum, preferably right into the diaphram, and then the next round crashes into the upper chest, throat region - with a good 4 or 6 inches spacing in between.

    The reason is because a hollow point is going to go in and disrupt. Expand. Tear bone and flesh and cause interior bleeding.

    Put another round on top of the first and you are damaging the same area.

    Put another round in another vital organ area and you are TWICE as likely to cause a bleed out. Situation over.

    It made a ton of sense and it's hard to argue with.

    I love shooting tight groups, and I love to out shoot someone, but if it ever comes down to it, I am going to pause that half a heartbeat between the second pull of that trigger and allow the weapon to rise just enough to send another .230 grains into a fresh spot on the body and hope for the best....

    JD
     
  14. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    Excellent point. I never considered that hitting all over the place on a baddie was actually more effective, but I see the logic.

    I've learned something. Life is now good.

    Thanks, guys.