I know what this is. Do you?

Discussion in 'General Shotgun Discussion' started by kfox75, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This shotgun was made in between 1950 and 1953 in SIlver Creek NY, at a plant located on Mechanic Street. When the company went bankrupt in 1953, Their remaining stock was bought by Numrich Gun Parts, and some of their NOS products were bought by Marlin for use in the R&D department. The end result was the Levermatic .22. Who can tell me the name of the company that made this?
     

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  2. bearrwe

    bearrwe New Member

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    I think its a Kessler? It's been a while since I've seen or heard of one.
     

  3. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That would be the correct answer. It is a Kessler Arms Corp. model 30 C. That thing on the end of the barrel is a Komp-Choke, with 6 choke settings. The settings range from Long range, 2, Mid range,4, short range, 5, and skeet, with a spring that clicks when you are at the set point. Part of the cool factor for me is that is a representation of local history. I live 2.5 miles from where the plant was, and I graduated from the HS in the village.

    Kessler only made shotguns for three years, and they only made 3 models. The model 28 bolt action with a detatchable 2 round box magazine, and a fixed choke. The model 30 C with an internal 2 round magazine, and the adjustable Komp-Choke. And the model 50 Levermatic lever action with an internal 2 round magazine, and a fixed choke. They were only available in 12, 16, and 20 gauge, with a total production run of 750,000 shotguns. 75,000 were the model 50 (guess which one I am looking to aquire). Before that, they were an airgun manufacturer, and they also had a line of pellets, targets, and crossbows.

    I am always looking to learn more about the company. If anyone knows something I have not included here, please feel free to post it so we can all learn a little more about this company. I would definitly appreciate it. The town historian has almost no information on Kessler arms, and I am trying to gather some more information for him. His grandfather worked at the plant, but alziemers has claimed his memory. Please help me help him. Thank you.
     
  4. HockaLouis

    HockaLouis New Member

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    I was going to suggest finding the families of the corporate officers and asking to visit them to discuss if u r presentable. Some may still be alive so hurry. There's a booklet to be published in it too...
     
  5. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hocka. Good advice. I have been trying to locate some of the families, but most who know are dead or have left the area. All this talk of an economic depresion on the news, hate to tell them, Western NY has been in one for close to 25 years! Long story short, the mass exodus of the late ;80s is why I posted this. Maybe one of their kids will see it , and remember dad's old job. Kind of a shot in the dark, but you never know. Thanks for the suggestion.
     
  6. sirhc

    sirhc Member

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    The far away picture reminds me of the 20GA shotgun I have.
     
  7. sirhc

    sirhc Member

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    Not sure why my pictures didn't attach.

    ForumRunner_20121224_183000.jpg



    ForumRunner_20121224_183014.jpg
     
  8. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sirhc, I also have one of thse. It is a Mossberg 185ka or a variant thereof. The first shotgun I ever fired was one of these. Mossberg made several of them for the hardware stores back in the 40s to the 60s. My dad had an old Western Field model when he was a teen.
     
  9. sirhc

    sirhc Member

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    Mine is a "B". My grandfather bought it brand new for my dad in 1955 when he was 12. He gave it to me when I was about the same age. It also was my first shotgun that I shot. I took my first deer with it when I was about 15 or 16.
     
  10. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I still have the one dad and I both got our first deer with, An old Mossberg 185 d (interchangealbe chokes instead of the C-Lect choke) with a Redding peep sight added to the receiver. Not going to say it is super accurate with slugs, but I can cut a beer bottle off a fence post at 50 yards with it. A big part of that is how dad trained me. In order to hunt deer, I had to be able to put 5 slugs into a paper pie plate at 70 yards. With that shotgun, I ahd that down within the first 3 attempts. IMHO, you just can't beat those old bolt action shotguns for big game hunting.
     
  11. James Claypool

    James Claypool New Member

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    I have a Kessler 30C in 16 gauge with the Komp-choke assembly on the end of the barrel. However, the tube insert is missing. Looking at the Numrich site, it looks like there are a few parts that go in the assembly that are missing. One is an adjustable choke tube, there is also a "sleeve" and a "click spring." Can you describe how all these parts are put together?
     
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  12. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    James. First off, welcome to the forum. When you have a chance, swing by the introductions section, and introduce yourself to the rest of the group.

    The komp choke tube simply screws into the front od the assembly, which is threaded as far as I can tell with mine. That might be what is called the sleeve, but I can't be sure, as I have never had mine that far apart.

    My guess in that it goes from just after the furthest forward compensation cuts, to about where the bead screws in to the choke, and that the spring is part of how it's retained, once the bead is screwed in.

    It is also possible that it may be a press fit part, which Numrich would have as an NOS part, as they bought out all of Kessler's remaining stock when it went bankrupt.

    If it is, then that may be what locks in the spring, which seems to be held in place with the bead sight from what I can see.

    I would say stick your finger into the komp-choke, and feel around inside it. If you feel threads, slide your finger up to under the front bead, and you may feel a spring tab sticking down. If both are there, all you need is the selector tube to return it to factory specs.

    Again, welcome aboard, and let me know what you find, and fill me in on how it goes.

    best of luck.
     
  13. James Claypool

    James Claypool New Member

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    Here is the schematic and the parts list (with pictures) on the numeric website: https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/american-eagle/bolt-act-shot-ameag.
     
  14. James Claypool

    James Claypool New Member

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  15. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    James. Sorry, but the pictures didn't come through. I did however, break out the Numrich books, and looked up the 30 C, as well as pull mine out to take the Komp-Choke down, clean it up a bit, and regrease the threads for the sleeve inside the Komp-Choke.

    Here's how it all goes together.

    The inside of the Komp-Choke body is threaded, and the sleeve in inserted at the muzzle, threads towards the breach, and screwed into place. The spring tab goes in the hole towards the cuts in the choke body, and the bead holds the spring in place from above, flat on the top with the tab sticking in. There should be a red dot on the sleeve (The $7 one in your link is the correct style), and it indicates via the Full, 2, mod, 4 Improved Cyl, and Skeet marks in the choke body, which mode it is in. The click spring comes up on the solid portions of the sleeve, and then drops into the groves between the fingers of the sleeve, to lock in place.

    Now for the bad news. I didn't see any listing online, on the Numrich site, for the 16 gauge components for the Komp-Choke, which means you will have to call them to see if they are in stock anymore, or if more will arrive later on, say a pending sale of one of the 16 ga 30 Cs out there. All I found on the site was 20 and 12 ga parts for that model.

    One option would be to find a smith in your area, one that has been at an established shop for a few years, as they may have some of the parts you need to get it working again. If nothing else, they may be able to remove the choke body for you, and thread and install a bead, so you can safely use it for now, until you or they can get the rest of the parts.

    Start with a call to Numrich, and see what they have first, and let me know how it turns out.
     
  16. James Claypool

    James Claypool New Member

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    I think the 16 gauge is a little different. I didn't see on the Numrich site what gauge the adjustable choke and choke sleeve were. Since they were cheap, I ordered both. They came in the mail today. The "choke sleeve" will screw into the choke assembly, but the "adjustable choke tube" does not fit. There is no hole on the top of the choke assembly for the spring to fit into. The sleeve has no markings on it to indicate the choke constriction. The sleeve protrudes out the front of the choke assembly about an inch when screwed down into the assembly all the way such that some of the constricting spaces are visible. I'll try calling Numrich to see what they say. The assembly on my gun looks just slightly different than the pictures I've found on line. If I can figure out how to post pictures I will.
     
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  17. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yep. I know what the choke should look like, based on the ones I have seen. Does the part sticking out past the body look like this?\

    Also, if you look on the top you will see an oval, with one side thicker than the other. That is the facory spring, with the bead going through it, and there should be two holes in the body of the choke, one for the bead, which also goes through the spring, the other for the spring tab to go through.

    [​IMG]

    or like this?

    [​IMG]

    If it looks like the bottom one, chances are it's an aftermarket choke. That may make finding the right parts a bit harder if it is.

    There were a few other companies that made something similar in function, that looked about the same, but not quite.

    If the top of the choke body only has a single hole, and no spring on it, chances are it's an aftermarket choke. Also, is your bead on the body or on the barrel?

    If it's on the barrel, chances are good that someone added it at a later date. If it's on the Komp-Choke, look for that oval piece, which is the top of your spring. Also, look for the choke setting marks on the body, up at the muzzle. those were unique to Kessler from what I have seen.
     
  18. James Claypool

    James Claypool New Member

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    The bottom picture is what the Numrich site calls the "choke sleeve" and it will fit into the choke assembly on my gun, but it protrudes out the end of the choke assembly. My assembly has only the hole for the bead. No hole for the spring. I'll call Numrich on Monday and see what they say.
     
  19. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's what I would do as well.

    It is possible that that is the style used on the 16 gauge 30 C, but since I've only seen them in 12 and 20 gauge, I can't be 100% sure on it.

    Even the ols ads I have only show the Komp-Choke from the top picture, which is the one on both of mine.

    Let me know what you find out.
     
  20. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    if these are not collector items, an idea would be to see if a gunsmith could remove a small portion of the muzzle end of the barrel and bore it, and thread it for screw-in choke tubes.

    just an idea. :)
     
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