I don't understand

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by stalkingbear, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Active Member

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    When comparing a lot of compact and sub compact pistols, it seems that the 9mm versions are as big and have as long of a barrel as the .45s. Now having shot .45s for years, and teaching others, the recoil of a .45 is not bad. It's not nearly as bad as a lot of people make out. In fact it is not something that should affect the choice of pistol caliber.

    So why do a lot of people choose a 9mm when they could have a .45 the exact same size & length? I've been researching the actual sizes of pocket guns and compact guns. Except for the Rohrbaugh and Kahr the .45 versions are just as small as the 9mm versions. Somebody please explain to me why a smaller bullet is preferable when you can have a .45. And what about the .40? Why choose a 9mm over the .40 in the same size gun. Note that I'm talking about small concealable defensive guns only-not target guns or full size duty pistols. Yes,I realize I'm opening up a HUGE can of worms but am curious about this.
     
  2. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Bear, I totally agree with you on this.

    IMO, I think it has a lot to due with mainly the social influence mainstream and overexposure of the 9mm, i.e. TV, law enforcement use, military use and influence, personal use and preference, lack of real hands on shooting comparison, capacity, and the increased availability and price of the 9mm round on the store shelves. Just to name a few.

    Jack
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010

  3. Mr. Bluesky

    Mr. Bluesky New Member

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    If it's a first gun, affordability of practice ammo may be a concern.
     
  4. lonyaeger

    lonyaeger New Member

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    We all know what it's about with most 9mm fanboys.....capacity.

    I know, Bear, you're gonna talk about the XD with 13+1 or a Para, but I betcha the capacity thing is what is driving most of them to 9mm.
     
  5. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    That would be my guess as well...
     
  6. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    Price of .45acp is double that of 9mm.
    9mm holds more rounds
    9mm WILL do the job
    9mm is more readily availiable, .45acp was getting rare for a while.

    I can't think of many .45's as small as 709slims,kahr's, walthers'etc..

    Not justifications or my reasons personally, but it is what it is.
     
  7. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Not a compact, but when a buddy wanted an XD similar to my XD45 (but not in green), he went with the 9mm for more affordable ammo. I'm sure it wasn't recoil or capacity, as he has lusted after the XD45 at the shooting pit, heavily. Dude is young and frequently broke, so it makes sense for him.

    Of course, he also likes to take his girl with him to shoot, and the .45 scared her a bit with the noise.
     
  8. pioneer461

    pioneer461 New Member

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    I'm in total agreement. I recall when the first S&W "wonder nine" made it's debut in the LE world in the 70's. It was marketed stressing high capacity and at the time, were selling only to law enforcement. I bought and carried a first generation model 59 for several years, and traded it for a .40 S&W (4006) as my primary duty gun when those hit the market. Now, in retirement, I've gone back to my roots, with .45 acp. in a compact shooter, S&W 457 stainless.
     
  9. gorknoids

    gorknoids New Member

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    Capacity and ammo cost. Time getting back on target. If bore diameter was the sole issue, I'd be carrying a .500, (The recoil is not that bad) but I can't afford to shoot 200-400 rounds of .500 per month. I shoot a lot because I know that 7 9mm holes are collectively larger than 2 .45 holes, if that makes sense.
     
  10. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    If you look at a to of other forums you will see an almost endless barrage from the " more learned" members of "If it's a first weapon get a 9mm because ammo is cheaper to shoot and holds more". I really don't believe this is all that good an idea being many handgun owners are not collectors or want more than one or two weapons and it just defeats one of the most important things to think about when buying a handgun. It has to fit you . and a 9mm is just not the one size fits all weapon many might think it is. Especially when looking at compact weapons. Muzzle flip can be pretty snappy with a compact 9mm especially if it's got a lighter poly frame. I have more than a few friends that have bought a small 9mm only to find out they liked shooting my Commander length 1911 more. Come to find out that little bit bigger barrel was not such a big deal after all. So now that have a little Glock or XD becoming a safe queen or just gets traded off to get something they really want.

    By all means, if a 9mm is your cup of tea then run with it. But getting one because some gun rag, or forum guru says it's what to do is just as bad as getting a 45 when that was not what fits you better. New shooters need to get their hands on as many different weapons as they can. Find a friend that has a few, go to a range that rents. Most people will know what works for them best after they pick up a few different pieces and send a little lead down range. That's what I did many years ago and ended up a 1911 junkie. But I always remembered my Dad telling me no need to fix things that are not broke. I have other type weapons and in a few calibers. But what I shoot best is a nice 1911. So that's what you will see on my hip most occasions.
     
  11. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    spot on. couldnt agree more.
     
  12. gorknoids

    gorknoids New Member

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    That's what it boils down to: The gun that suits your needs. Firearms as tools. Old shooters need to get their hands on as many firearms as they can, also. In violation of many, many laws, my brothers and I shot dad's Colt 1911 and his S&W Model 10 regularly, and without supervision most of the time. Given one shot to end an engagement, I really don't care if I'm sending a 9mm or a .45. If it hits in the vitals, it has served its purpose. If I'm in a gunfght, I want a 9mm single-action. I didn't come to that conclusion due to a magazine article, I simply considered the dynamics of a "shoot-to-live' scenario. More rounds on target faster wins. When the 1911 guy is preparing for his second re-load, I'm still on Mag1. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the average medulla oblongata can't distinguish between 9MM and .45. It's just a matter of getting to it first. I carry +P, so penetration isn't a concern. Strapping on a .45 because it's John Waynes favorite sidearm make less sense. If both rounds are lethal, why not arm yourself with the one that actually permits you to be offensive?
     
  13. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    Bear, I honestly don't know. The first pistol I owned personally was my XD45 and I've never looked back. At the time you could get a box of 45 for about $10 and 9 was $6 or so. I was in college and price was not a concern, I was shooting 150-200 yds a week and did so for about 6 months, rarely missing a week.
    I think people are somewhat scared of the 45 or think it's just a HUGE round that they don't need. The wonder 9 mentality is still there thanks to the TV and movies. A lot of people think you can't conceal a 45(those who carry a 45 I'm sure have had that conversation with at least 1 person) so they don't even look. Could be a couple of reasons....
     
  14. Wambli

    Wambli New Member

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    Because once you objectively separate yourself from caliber snobbery, in the real world with modern premium defensive ammo there is no sigiificant difference in performance between the .45 the .40 and the 9mm.

    Because 9mm pracice ammo is almost half the price of .45.

    Because no one makes a .45 that is as slim gripped as a Kahr, Walther PPS or SA EMP so thare are many folks that find the grip size of a single stack 9mm a lot better fit than any .45 anyone can come up with.

    Because a 9mm in the hands of someone that actually knows what they are doing is 1,000x better than a .45 that doesn't get shot/carried for months at a time because of the above reason.
     
  15. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    Just some thoughts....
     
  16. MB44

    MB44 New Member

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    There are places in the world where .45ACP is not available, or downright illegal. E.g. when I used to live in Denmark, the law there says that any caliber where the bullet exceeds 10mm in diameter is illegal.... So that means that we couldn't shoot e.g. .44MAg/.45ACP, etc.
    So that's why we always shot 9mm, and I just got used to it. It worked for me. Now that I live in South America, where basically any caliber goes, I am looking to change to .45 ACP.
     
  17. Wambli

    Wambli New Member

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    1) The EMP frame is DEFINITELY shorter front to back in the grip making it friendlier to those with smaller hands.

    2) No the argument cannot be made for any caliber. Only those that exhibit enough penetration and performance to be suitable for SD. I would not be making the same argument about .25 or .32 caliber guns. This is very relevant to this discussion because the original poster asked why would anyone get a 9mm over a .45. My point is that if you know what you are doing there is not a rats rectum difference between the two as defensive calibers. I carry a .45 when I feel like it and at times when concealment objectives dictate it I carry a 9mm and I feel no less armed. Several folks that are VERY close to me are armed with 9mm and I don't loose a moment of sleep thinking they are not capable of taking care of business should the need arise.

    Caliber snobbery between the 9mm and the .45 might have had it's place decades ago when HP ammo was in it's infancy and still is an issue with FMJ in the military but TODAY in the real world with the modern ammo available to us it is at best a rather dated discussion and at it's worse the darling of gun store counter lore and newbie arguments.
     
  18. Biohazurd

    Biohazurd New Member

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    my first centerfire handgun was a Ruger p95 i chose 9mm because of magazine capacity, price, and ease of aquiring ammo, ive since moved up to a 1911 for primary carry and have never looked back, but i also own several 9mm still and shoot and carry them frequently when my .45 is just out of the question, I.E. extremely hot summer days...
     
  19. AsmelEduardo

    AsmelEduardo New Member

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    Agree 100%... especially in the Self Defense scenario
    Bear, sorry to stir the pot here but... is a matter of preferences, mane people just think that a 9mm is a weak sissy round... I bet any of the people that thinks that way are willing to stop a 9mm hit on center of mass just to prove their theory...
    Don't get me wrong, but for me it's like say "why you drive that sissy Ford Explorer when you can drive a F450"... both will do the same job, but the .45 is more expensive round, less capacity guns, less firepower that weight more (comparing let's say a G17 loaded with a G21 then add 4 more rounds to the scale)... this is an endless argument, I know that any can say that you will need less shots fired with a .45... you can use the same argument and carry a S&W 500 or 460... many people just don't see that 9mm is so effective as a .45, I don't complain or bash anybody that carry any gun for self defense in any caliber larger than .380... 9mm, .38, .357, .40, .45 are outstanding choices for SD and nobody should be criticized for that choice.... all of them have their pros. and cons.
     
  20. gadrooning

    gadrooning New Member

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    Bear I agree with you 100%. I'm guessing a large portion of this people are intimidated by the the very same myths that I heard along while back ago like :

    1) you can't hit anything with a 45 more than a couple of feet, it is too inaccurate because of the size of the bullit.

    2) The 45 can break your rist if you don't hold it tight.

    Also i think alot of people don't have the confidence in their own marksmanship, so they often go for the more firepower. Guess 7 or 8 rounds don't give them enough comfort.