I Disagree With You Thread

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by Dillinger, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Okay, this has been needed for a bit now and is in use on other website forums across the internet.

    We are having good meaning threads hijacked and taken completely off course because one person makes a statement that someone else takes personally and a flame war ensues. I am fine with a heated discussion, as long as it can remain civil, but this constant redirecting of threads is harmful to new contributors who have not the experience in our little realm to know what's going on.

    Here's the deal - This thread can be taken wherever the hell you think it needs to go. Copy and paste the "inaccurate" quote from whatever thread you read it in, paste it in here with some quote marks on it, and then state your rebuttal, with as much random information or opinion as you want. Post a simple reply in the initial thread indicating that you have a counter opinion and that your reply will be addressed here. Threads can then stay on track and people who are new here, and making an effort to contribute, won't feel their work is in vain and has become secondary to an ongoing verbal barrage.

    There is nothing wrong with a healthy argument from time to time, but not everyone is up on the history of your particular issue, so moving it to more neutral ground is a good way to deal with the issue and still allow growth to a website that we all, I believe, love.

    JD
     
  2. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Boris - A Continuing Discussion

    Your statement was "the French military who where instrumental in the recovery of the three American Operatives (held captive since 2003) along with the other 11 hostages freed from Columbia yesterday."

    The implication was, if no one cared to research it, that the French Military was directly responsible. They weren't. Maybe they provided intel. Maybe they didn't. Maybe they had troops on the ground. Maybe they didn't. What can be said for sure is that French folks don't look anything like Colombians, and since this was a subversive technique of troops posing as Colombian Revolutionaries, I kind of doubt it was French, or US Troops, on the ground.

    And here we are, hijacking another good thread started by someone who obviously wants to commit some good information to the website. Again we have someone that says something you don't like, and again we have you accusing us Americans of not being as well educated. How many times has this come about in the last few months?

    How is this different? The Colombian Army normally does a horrible job at everything, but because they had French intel, or boots on the ground, suddenly they can do a good job? If I was of Colombian army service stock, I would take offense to that, just as you did to BigO's statement in the previous post. It's no different than the posts that you have problems with saying the French needed US assistance to take back their country. Everyone can cast stones on another's operation from afar, even you. Maybe their leaders are corrupt, maybe they aren't, but I bet there are some good soldiers in their ranks that honestly try to kick *** everytime out of the gate.

    First, I never said their elite units weren't good. That's how you get to be Elite, by being good. The French Foreign Legion has, for decades, produced hardcore soldiers. Second, what the hell are you talking about? #3 at what?! Source?! Was there some international ranking system that was put in place that determined if "my" Special Forces team could kick the *** of "their" Special Forces team?!

    JD
     

  3. Boris

    Boris New Member

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    JD: Put it back in the tin........you know a lot better than to take anything here personally...... and while you have taken the moral high ground you must also be aware that you are just as guilty of hi-jacking threads as others here so please, and do say this with some tongue in cheek, don't such a load of tripe............
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2008
  4. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    :eek: I am not taking it personally - we are having a discussion, or a difference of opinion, or whatever. But there is no good reason to have a discussion of this nature, this far off topic, in a newbie's thread that was obviously trying to contribute.

    I feel the guy probably has no idea of your background, and your views, and has no idea that this is something that has gone on for several past threads. We don't need to chase him off with our gruff back and forth of normal conversation. I don't feel that is fair to him. Now we have a place were we can discuss the finer points of anything where two people disagree - on anything.

    Once again, all the more reason to be able to move the discussion to a place set aside for such things. I don't want my threads hijacked, and I am sure the newbie's don't either. This is just good internet protocol for a forum and is in common use. I didn't invent it in an attempt to "win" or take the moral high ground on anything. Maybe I just wanted a good place to be able to tell you how wrong you are without hijacking someone elses thread on global warming. :D

    There is nothing wrong or harmful in that....
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2008
  5. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Let's keep it calm and civil folks.
     
  6. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    It is remaining calm & civil. There isn't anything in the posts that are threats or violent in nature, and we aren't calling each other names, nor are we challenging each other to pistols at dawn.

    I just posted the new thread idea to move the discussion out of a new members training posts. The discussion concerns a foreign military operation, in a thread about firearms training.

    Boris has one opinion, I have a differing one, neither of which were needed in the thread where they sprang up...

    JD
     
  7. pioneer461

    pioneer461 New Member

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    None of us were there.

    We are relying on reports provided by the always reliable news media.

    Any French troops in the area were more than likely Foreign Legion, and therefore not likely to "look french."

    $0.02 worth. Take it or leave it. Who cares?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. BPond

    BPond New Member

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    It's not just "technically" legal - it's perfectly legal, and there's nothing Big Brother can do about it, because it's simply not against the law. Though if you're a felon, you're still outta luck.

    There are numerous forums and websites dedicated to home-made firearms, and AR-15s in particular. It's not something you need to hide from the world, or be fearful of.:)

    EDIT: From the ATF Firearms FAQ: "With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts."
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2009
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Do you really believe that? NOTHING they can do about it? :rolleyes:



    Yeah. Interesting thing that little highlighted part there. The classification of "non-sporting" and their definition of "imported"

    Personally, I don't own any firearms any longer, factory, custom or home made, as I lost them all in a tragic boating accident with Skullchrusher. :(
     
  10. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Hey, I was driving the BOAT. I just forgot it wasn't a submersible!!! [​IMG]
     
  11. BPond

    BPond New Member

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    There is nothing they can legally do about it. Sure, if they want to assault my home with a SWAT team in violation of my God-given rights, I'm pretty much at their mercy, as you would be, if they did the same to you. The odds of such a thing happening are no greater for me than they are for you.

    People build their own guns, or components for their guns all the time. It is not illegal.
     
  12. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    And AGAIN, I said it was technically legal. I never said it wasn't legal. You are confusing facts with plain good advice.

    To post about making your own AR, from scratch, on an open forum like this one, that is definitely being monitored, I think you would be an utter baffoon to think this is only among the members here.

    Randy Weaver hadn't done anything wrong either, when he attracted the attention of Federal Agents. Due to money troubles, he was coerced into chopping two shotguns off below the legal limit. Had he not already been on the radar, he would not have been put in that situation. But instead.....

    Look what happened there.

    Why, in this day and age, with the country in the condition it is in, would you willingly volunteer that you are building your own, non serial numbered, non-trackable, black rifle?!

    Pits First Rule: When you are in one, stop digging.

    JD
     
  13. BPond

    BPond New Member

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    I guess we're of two very different minds. I don't care that people know I'm not afraid to exercise my Constitutionally-protected rights. For the love of God, man! It's not a crime to own a gun! What about the firearms you've purchased at gunstores? You just put yourself on notice to Big Brother, that you bought a new gun, and they have a serial number linked to your name, face, thumbprint, and SSN. Tell me I'm more exposed than you.

    EDIT: Kag, I'm sorry for crapping all over your thread.:(
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  14. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Yeah, you just don't get my point.

    The difference between your homemade guns and my purchased guns is this:

    I legally purchased mine, just like the million other Americans in the month of August did. Nothing to set me apart from anyone else. No flags on my jacket. No tickets or even a parking ticket in close to a dozen years.
    I am innocuous. I am just another right wing gun owner. Nothing special. Nothing out of the ordinary.

    Someone comes to the door and wants MY guns: "Ooops. I sold them to Gary and Jeff". I am off the hook. Nothing wrong with selling my weapons. I don't even have to report them sold.

    Your homemade gun on the other hand, now that you are on record as endorsing the homemade boomstick, you are REQUIRED to show proof it was destroyed, or turn it over, or you are going to jail.

    Now, you want to stand at the head of the line, beat your chest and be the firebrand/lighting rod for the exercising of your Rights?

    Have at it man! Get on with your bad self. I will not stop you in one way shape or form.

    I am just going to be standing here with the rest of the normal, ordinary, working class, tax paying, gun owners watching the show.

    Nothing to see over here, feel free to move along, we're just watching from the sidelines. Nothing to be concerned about here....

    I think anyone that would publicly proclaim they are going to make their own weapon, especially an AR, is an utter fool in announcing it. Once it's in cyber-space, it just doesn't "go away".....

    JD
     
  15. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    Ok, I'm gonna jump in and offer my seemingly devalued .02.

    1. As a machinist by trade, I would never post a pic of a CAD/CAM drawing with my seat signature of any firearm lower I would or would not make on a public forum, especially if I did not own the seat personally.

    2. Boris is a respected member of a very large mfg forum where his Mr. Slammy appears often, but he is banned here.

    3. I would never give ammo to those that be to know my business should I take it upon myself to manufacture any firearm for my own use.

    4. Just because you can do so, it makes no sense to make others know that you are doing so.

    5. For the price of MasterCam and the seat, I would never show it in a public arena for those that could hack the seat. If I think it can't be done, I would think again.

    6. Manufacture my own or just playing around, I would realize that I am on a target list after doing so. I would have to feel overly confident to display my business anywhere on the internet. Chalk it up to ignorance or cockiness, it makes no difference how "they" would gain access to my business.

    7. Ignorance of the unwritten law is the key to being watched.

    8. A legal purchase is a legal purchase. I would hate to be caught without a numbered arm just because they can make a huge stink and legal battle. I would be in the right, but they could ruin me financially in having to prove such.

    9. Just because I can do so, I have never done so.
     
  16. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I see that Skull and I are on the same page.

    Thanks Skull -

    The Boris stuff was from years ago - I dusted this thread off because it was hijacking a realitivly new members AR thread and I did not want that person to be slighted, which was why this thread was started in the first place, ironically...

    JD
     
  17. BPond

    BPond New Member

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    Meh. I thought you guys would get a kick out of seeing someone machine their own lower.
     
  18. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    AHHH....My .02 cents here and just a friendly internet reminder for all who value your 2A rights....and guns. Just my personal thoughts here and HO, It is my practice to never post any picture of any of my own personal weapons on a public forum, the government, FBI and possibly soon the BATFE can and will have a copy of any and all firearms purchased through a 4473 from the various gun dealers I have purchased from. Private transactions with receipt of firearm information has been exchanged also. Take those transactions and match them to the beautiful guns we are all proud to display for show here, along with your forum name and..............well you get it. Also I would never say on a public forum that I am building a non-serialized, non-transferable weapon in my home and post a picture. Think about the possible obvious consequences that could arise in future along with the ones already mentioned. Treat you guns like cards in a poker game, never show your hand to anyone, until your satisfied and ready to call.

    I can't do any display of my guns anyway, because like JD, Cane and Skull, I too was a fool and took all of my weapons on a boat ride to Monkey Island and the boat capsized. I suggest the rest of you rent a boat and keep the receipt. Food for thought here, ladies and gentleman. ;)

    Jack
     
  19. falseharmonix

    falseharmonix New Member

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    As this is a rather open-ended thread, I hope I'm not breaking the rules by hijacking...

    Those of you who lost your weapons in the boating accident or sold them to Tom, Dick and Harry, do you believe that simply saying that is enough to get Big Brother satisfied, and say "okey dokey, we're done here" ?

    I mean, if they want the weapons, and Obamalamadingdong puts some 'weapons seizure act' into play , albeit totally farfetched and HOPEfully never happens, don't you think they're going to come armed with a search warrant and execute that warrant to be sure your guns are really rusting at the bottom of the Black Lagoon?
     
  20. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    It doesn't matter - We do not have to show proof of WHO bought the weapons, we only have to show reasonable evidence to suggest that the weapons were purchased.

    "The economy got bad, I was laid off for a bit, I needed some money" *repeat - because it's true*

    Do you think that our houses' are going to be the FIRST ONE served with warrants? :confused:

    With absolutely no red flags, absolutely no gang or militia ties, stable jobs, homes, paid bills ( even minimum payments ) and no threat reports?? :confused:

    I am not going to go into the details, but this economic slump is more than just a current state of affairs if you apply yourself and use your most effective weapon: Your Brain.

    JD