I come in peace...why 1911?

Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by CHLChris, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    Canebrake, this is a great question for you. My reasons for all of my gun purchases thus far have been SD, not hunting. My Glock has 15+1 rounds. I've been doing a lot of reading and watching videos on the 1911 .45 and was surprised to find that they generally have 8+1. The Glock full-size .45 has 13+1.

    The double-stack of the Glock apparently gives it a grip that is too fat or brick-like for some, and videos showing "proper" grip often teach a grip only possible on the single stack 1911. I kinda like that brick in my hand.

    Now from a "mo' is betta" frame of mind, I'm wondering why I should buy a 1911 .45 instead of that Glock 21 I'm looking at.

    Seriously, I have no malice in my question. I'm not trying to stir the pot. I just want to make the best decision for my money. I want a full-size .45 in my collection.
     
  2. Ubergopher

    Ubergopher New Member

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    I'm not a 1911 owner YET (I have one on lay-away) but here is how is why I'm getting a 1911 instead.

    1. They feel good in my hand

    2. They have several manual safeties instead of just the trigger safety of a glock

    3. The solid construction

    4. Exposed hammer. Its just personal, but for me I like exposed hammers.

    5. The history behind it as opposed to the history behind Glock. (I'm no gangsta yo.)
     

  3. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Have multiple 1911s, had a Glock 21. The only thing the G21 has is capacity, but to achieve it the grip feels like a 2x4. All I can say is find a range that rents 1911s and shoot one - all the questions will be answered. I never knew how good I could shoot a pistol until my first 1911 - for lack of a better explanation they are just "natural" shooters.

    Also, I've never felt undergunned with 8 rounds of .45 at my disposal in a platform I shoot extremely well. I do have a high capacity .45 though, it's an XD Compact and it will carry 13 with the extended mag. The XD is my truck gun as I don't care if it gets banged up and it's much more comfortable to hold and shoot than the G21 (at least for me)...
     
  4. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Well, you called out Cane - so I am going to leave this to him....

    Oh Caaaannnnnneeeeeeeee!!

    JD
     
  5. Sarge43

    Sarge43 New Member

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    I think I saw him over at the counter checking out a glock. :eek::rolleyes:
    (That should get him over here :D )

    I can only answer for why I like 1911's.
    A glock is fine for punching holes in paper at the range when you have time to take your time - heck, I even own one - but for anything past that, including self defense, I choose the 1911. For one, the frames just "fit" me and my hand. They're easy for me to conceal, even under a t-shirt. The trigger is clean, short, and precise making for comfort in any self defense situation that may arise. The overall package of a 1911 is more naturally pointable for me. I know that with my Glock 27, a quick point and fire results in holes that are consistent, but off point of desired aim. Any of my 1911's in the same situation are consistent and ON the desired point of aim. In a high stress situation, I don't want to HOPE that a quick shot is on target, I want to KNOW that the shot is on target. I have that assurance with my 1911's. ALL of my 1911's. This stuff may not apply to everyone, but it does to me, and that's why 1911 is my personal defense weapon of choice. Now if you go into the joy of owning one, that's a whole book and how you can make the platform your own and customize at will. This is just about the defensive aspect of the weapon for me.
    Sarge
     
  6. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    You just answered your own question.

    You stated yourself that you kinda like the Glock better.

    Buy the Glock 21.

    P.S. You also have the Glock 21 listed in the "Handgun Wishlist" thread, so it seems you have already made up your mind.
     
  7. Bigguns911

    Bigguns911 New Member

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    I currently carry a Glock 21 for work, I like it but some find the grip to big. I have big hands so it fits. I went to the Glock from a Sig Pro and it took some time to get accustomed to. I also own a Colt 38 super in a 1911 frame. I know this is not a 45 but it does have similar fetchers. I have also shot the Kimber and I liked it a looot.

    Both guns are good and are made well. If you go with Glock look at the SF frame 21. I have not shot it but holding it, it was nice. Felt like a Glcok 22 or so. You also need to keep in mind the price on both, for a good 1911 you are looking at a lot of $'s. Not that they are not worth it but you need to think what you will be doing with the gun. I would not like to roll around on the ground in fight with a Kimber but my Glock that is cool. Like the other said go some place you can shot both and try them out. Happy shooting.
     
  8. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Well-Known Member

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    You have big hands-well I've got pretty big hands too. Have you ever hrard of Para Ordnance 1911s? You can get up to 14+1 shots of .45 with the P-14. They (Para Ord) got their start in 1986 offering double stack frame/conversion kits, and expanded from there. Sti has had double stack frames/guns out for several years now. Heck-even Taurus is getting into the act with their pt1911hc. Try one of those on for size.

    Trying to explain to a person about 1911s, is like trying to explain riding Harleys or actual combat-you just don't know till you've been there or tried it. 1911s offer the perfect grip angle, have multiple safety features, feels the most natural of any centerfire pistol I've ever shot, has natural "pointability", and is the most combat/time proven design of all witout anything else even coming close. Reliability? ANY 1911 set up right will feed ANYTHING-even empty cases straight out of the magazine! Try that with your polymer gun. How many polymer guns do you see handed down like the all steel 1911? I could keep going forever but you get the idea-I'm sure Cane has a MUCH better way with words than I do-besides you directed this post at him anyway. Neil



     
  9. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    The ergo on the glock is all wrong. It sits too high in the hand the grip is built like a dam 2x4. If I wanted to hold a 2x4 in my hand I would go to Home Depot and buy one and make a gun out of it. Grip angle is not right for me either.

    I also don't like any gun that will not allow me to shoot reloads in it. The unsupported is used because cop don't know a dam thing about guns. They don't clean them properly so the unsupported helps extraction because your ammo sat in your gun for 6 months before shooting.
     
  10. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  11. busdriver72

    busdriver72 New Member

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    Why 1911???!!!!:confused:

    Because.....because....well, just because!!! Okay??? :D
     
  12. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    I accept your request and hope you accept my response.

    First, I am a big glock bigot. There, I got that out of the way! I signed up and started to drink the glock kool-aid with the first gen G22. I bought the propaganda along with tens of thousands of other gun owners! My cognitive dissonance kept me asking why this gun never felt 'good' in my hand? And why did this 40 cal kick more than the 45 ACPs I had shot? My hubris denied me the thought that I had made a mistake. I shot thousands of rounds down range with the G22, and yes, with no real issues for 12+ years. I never warmed up to this pistol.

    I had stayed away from 1911s because of a childhood scare experienced at age 5. My Dad had me shoot his M1911A1 with disastrous results. The recoil nearly knocked me out, the sound was overbearing and the fact that I didn't hit the target was brought up to me quite often from 5 to about 11 when I shot the gun for the second time. I did hit the target that time but did not enjoy the experience.

    I satisfied my gun requirements for the majority of my adult life with shotguns/hunting and target shooting with 22 rifles and cowboy rigs for the handgun aspect.

    I mentioned my cowboy genera above and while fondling a Ruger Blackhawk the gun salesman handed me the G22 and the whole sales pitch. I walked out of the store that day with my first autoloader.

    While shooting with friends I was kidded with the "plastic fantastic" comments and took an offer to shoot a 1911. Before I shot the gun I commented how good it felt in my hand. Anticipating the increased recoil I jerked the trigger, flinched at the gun's report and overall botched the first mag of 45 ACPs. Luckily for me, my friend had gone through this same procedure with someone else and handed me another loaded mag along with some 1911 familiarization. Both of us are engineers and what he did was explain technically why the "good" feeling was experienced. It is one thing to notice the differences but to have them explained to you highlights the superiority of the design.

    Within a week I owned a Colt 1911 and have never looked back. I have a policy to never sell a gun once I purchase it. A bad gun is better than no gun! I still have the G22 and use it to demonstrate the brilliance of the JM Browning design to anyone wanting to purchase a glock!

    With respect to the increased magazine capacity let me refer you to Jeff Cooper and his take on capacity.

    “It has never been clear to me why increased magazine capacity in a defensive pistol is particularly choice. The bigger the magazine the bigger the gun, and the bigger the gun the harder it is to get hold of for people with small hands. And what, pray, does one need all those rounds for? How many lethal antagonists do you think you are going to be able to handle? Once when Bruce Nelson was asked by a suspect if the thirteen-round magazine in the P35 was not a big advantage, Bruce's answer was, "Well, yes, if you plan to miss a lot." The highest score I know of at this time achieved by one man against a group of armed adversaries was recorded in (of all places) the Ivory Coast! There, some years ago, a graduate student of mine laid out five goblins, with four dead and one totaled for the hospital. Of course there is the episode of Alvin York and his eight, but there is some dispute about that tale. (If you read it over very carefully you will see what I mean.) Be that as it may, I see no real need for a double column magazine.

    Come on down to Ft. Lauderdale for a canebrake training session. I can also show you the superiorty of the AR platform over the AK!

    Here's a visual aid titled glockssuck.jpg;

    [​IMG]

    I actually read someone on the FTF state that the lousy trigger on the glock is a design feature! They portrayed the excessive take-up as a safety function. Only glock would take an engineering screw-up and turn it into a marketing feature.

    Please read the following posts:

    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f56/new-g19-one-pipe-15051/#post133931

    Like I have said before:

    I'm not a bad guy.

    I am a glock bigot!
     
  13. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I still hate that stupid G19 One in the Pipe thread.

    Talk about Kool-Aid. Sweet 7 pound Baby Jesus - that is the koolaid thread of the year right there....


    blah,blah,blah - Infidel!
     
  14. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    Eff ergonmics. It's about economics and bricks. I can get a Glock for less than $500.00! *snicker-snicker*

    Do ya keep one in the pipe? :D

    (we need a sarcasm smilie) [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2009
  15. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Few can argue that a 1911 is the fastest into action of any pistol available. The 1911 style platform is the winningest in the competition arena (IPSC, IDPA, etc.). A single stack shooter is more likely to hit the target with the first shot than a double stack shooter. 8+1 is not a disadvantage if you hit the target every time.

    Steel. Craftsmanship. Beauty. Most 1911's are works of art.

    For me the latest rendition of the Glock puts the ridges of the finger groves right against my overly large fingers.
     
  16. sweeper22

    sweeper22 New Member

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    My first 1911 is "on deck" for my next gun purchase, so I'm certainly no expert on the subject. I do like their trigger systems and they have a very natural point. They earn major points for style and feel.

    If you find a way invest some time behind a 1911 and you still prefer the Glock, then you've got your answer. After all, there's no sense in spending twice as much money for a gun you don't prefer. Buy what you like, especially if what you like costs significantly less.

    Glocks are fine guns. They're an ideal gun for the masses...simple, reliable, durable, low-maintainance, and reasonably affordable. They fill a direct purpose and they fill it well. They're the Toyota Camry of the gun world. But for anyone in the market for a polymer gun, I think Springfield XD offers all the best qualities of Glock and more for a similar price. I don't think Glock is a bad purchase at all. It just seems that XD is the best option in that market.
     
  17. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    The best reason I can think of, you can't put pimp pearlite grips on a Glock!

    [​IMG]
     
  18. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    The OP already stated that he was interested in a Glock 21, and he has already given the impression that he does not really like the 1911 platform as much.

    Consider the question solved when it was asked.

    It would probably be best not to degenerate into the whole 1911 vs Glock argument again, because in the end it really doesn't matter, and it's kinda annoying to be honest to hash out the same thing over and over.


    To the OP. Get the Glock 21. If the grip is a little big for you, get the Glock 21 SF, and call it good. I'm almost 100% positive that you'll be happy with it.
     
  19. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    Wow, SGT, you are very perceptive and keep those eyes on the forums! I, indeed have the G21 on my wishlist. That post is what is causing me to rethink my plan. That, and a YouTube post on proper hand grip. He taught thumb placement that is simply impossible on the Glock.

    And there is a wonderful invention called an extra magazine. I think some people have even been known to carry--GASP--2 extra magazines. I am certainly willing to consider a 1911 if the rest of the platform is better.

    The whole safety thing isn't a plus for me, but the "fireablilty" issue very much is. In .45, it better be a great gun to handle the larger load and stainless steel seems like a good option.
     
  20. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    Was this some sort of slam?

    What was that about, tango?