Hypothetical situation for training and discussion: Please play along

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by ArizonaLawman, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. ArizonaLawman

    ArizonaLawman New Member

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    Here's one for thought:

    At a Circle K (convenience store chain) two knuckleheads were "wolfing" at one another. One happened to be open carrying, what appeared to be, a Witness 9mm or 40 in a nylon OWB holster.

    I came through the door at the tail end of this, so I do NOT know what precipitated their bruhaha, other than they BOTH looked and acted very much like douchebags.

    I heard one say..."If you hit me (expletive deleted) I am gonna (expleteive deleted) shoot you!"

    Now....BOTH were within an inch of one another in height, and within a few pounds of one another...pretty well matched physically.

    So....knowing that I know the law on this....I am just curious what some opinions are from the members here. It is just a curiosity thing on my part to find out what the spectrum of answers I will get.

    The question is: Someone relatiely equally matched with you physically hits you. In your own words, and supporting WHY you will choose your SD option, tell me what you would do.

    Shoot
    Hit
    Run
    Stab
    Tase

    You are NOT limited to the above answers. Remember...the back story to the conflict is unimportant. It is all about this ONE moment and this ONE threat.

    Let's have a CIVIL debate and discussion on this.
     
  2. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    If i was the one carrying in this situation and the other guy had nothing other than his hands i would assess the situation and use the appropriate action. If the other guy is not armed with anything then my life is not in immediate danger. If the BG makes a violent move towards me then i will use the equal amount of force to stop his actions. NOW, if the altercation got to the point where the other guy had the upperhand and i was in danger of being choked out or incapacitated somehow then i would consider myself in fear of my life and would use deadly force due to the fact tht if im unconscience the BG could use my own weapon to kill me. But im speaking of me just minding my own business and someone showing random violent behavior towards me. In the scenario you r describing it seems tht both gentlemen will b on the losing side because the guy carrying may have instigated the altercation to begin with so he would b liable for anything tht he did.
     

  3. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    I take my my direction from training and the Guru.

    I am in Condition Orange;
    Specific alert. Something is not quite right and has your attention. Your radar has picked up a specific alert. You shift your primary focus to determine if there is a threat (but you do not drop your six). Your mindset shifts to "I may have to shoot that person today", focusing on the specific target which has caused the escalation in alert status. In Condition Orange, you set a mental trigger: "If that person does "X", I will need to stop them". Your pistol usually remains holstered in this state. Staying in Orange can be a bit of a mental strain, but you can stay in it for as long as you need to. If the threat proves to be nothing, you shift back to Condition Yellow.​
     
  4. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I feel I'm a bad mamajamma but, I'm not the baddest. The other guy may be more of a badass, and I have a gun on me. I would try to remove myself from the situation. Yes, by running like a coward if needed. He could beat me, and then take my gun and shoot me with it, and there's no need to let it go that far.

    If he has a gun, has threatened with it or brandished it, or has any other weapon or object that a reasonable person could expect to cause serious bodily injury or death- that is a fear for your life and shoot to stop their action kind of situation.

    I like the saying, "Speak softly, but carry a big stick" Roosevelt right?
    I try to avoid confrontation whenever possible, and have not had many confrontations because of it. I HAVE walked away from many D-bags trying to start stuff, and I feel like I'm a better man for it.
     
  5. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    But if the situation were a straight up fist fight with no weapons or knives of any type? Fight if you have to, just be prepared to get banged up and be sore in the morning.
     
  6. ArizonaLawman

    ArizonaLawman New Member

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    Damned good answer. A mild ass whippin' is just that. NOT death or grave bodily harm.

    Just doing some curiosity satisfaction.
     
  7. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    It can also be good for the body and soul, if your an arrogant jerk like I have been at times.
     
  8. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    OK, I assume this turd has some issue with me and is too stupid to realize I'm armed; even though I am open carrying.

    First, I will try to defuse the situation and back away to give myself some space.

    Second, if he invades that space I will retreat further but be prepared to defend.

    Third, if aggression persists against my warnings and retreat, and assuming I've run out of space to retreat into and his aggressiveness is approaching the boiled over point; I feel it is time to introduce him to the business end of Mr. Colt.

    As Cane said, awareness is very important. Not knowing the situation or whether he has friends waiting to jump you is a huge issue. You have to have control of the situation and know what and who is around you. So is distance. I want 10 feet or more between me and the aggressor. A man can cover 10 feet in less than a second. I also want him secured, but if he chooses to run, that is OK, too!

    Four, you shout over your shoulder to the clerk to call the police, never take you eyes off the douche bag. Order him to his knees and advise there is going to be nor more horseplay....Although my choice of language should and will fit the situation to what ever extent necessary to convey to Mr. Douche that I am serious.

    Five, hopefully I haven't had to shoot the tool yet or he has run away and the authorities have arrived. I follow their instructions, insuring that my weapon is empty and in a safe condition before putting it down.
     
  9. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    Unfortunately there r people out there tht r afraid to take an ass whippin and thts y they carry.. Then they end up pulling their firearm in non life threatening situations and find theirself in hot water
     
  10. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    And those are the ones who need to learn to run like me (i.e. a coward) if the situation calls for it.

    Running doesn't solve everything, but it can save a life. Yours or the D-bag.
     
  11. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    U r correct IMO, if the situation dictates to let u walk away then its the best thing to do. Its healthier for everyone, especially the SB.
     
  12. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    That works if you have the physical ability. I'm nearly 62 and going toe to toe with someone when I am carrying a weapon isn't what I would call a great idea. All they have to do is get desperate during the fight and grab for my weapon. Happens to LEO's, it can happen with you, too!

    How many times has an azz whoopin turned into attempted murder or the death of the wooped because the woopee didn't know when to stop.

    Or, are you just stiring the pot.......:rolleyes:
     
  13. rockhouse

    rockhouse New Member

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    First, you are not going to get within an inch of me before we get started. With that said, you are armed and the legal deck is stacked against you if you unholdster without cause. Back away. If they continue to approach a round house to the knee and jab to the throat will do the trick. As others have said, if it takes a turn for the worst and I feel my life is in danger, hollow points will be discharged.
     
  14. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    As Clint Smith says, "The best gunfight is the one you don't have!"

    Rule 23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

    Avoidance, or as trip286 said, "I would try to remove myself from the situation." isn't cowardice, it's intelligence.

    Besides, there's not a douche-bag worth spending the rest of my life and money defending against a wrongful death suit! The cruelest thing to do is let the DB live out his miserable life.

    But.......as Col. Cooper said; "...(but you do not drop your six)."

    Situational Awareness, if you don't have it you may miss your death! - cane
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
  15. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Dunerunner, I ran into a guy at the local Wallyworld and I couldn't help but giggle a bit. This guy was way taller than me and I'm 6 foot even, but he was freakin built. I mean he looked like he could stand a chance against Ahnold in the body builder contests when he was in his prime. And on his hip (barely covered by his shirt tail) with a license holder showing his permit, was the cutest tinyest little gun, about the size of a JA .22. The license was bigger than the gun!

    It wasn't you was it?
     
  16. SgtSam

    SgtSam New Member

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    As has been pointed out, the fact that someone is equal in height, weight, and build, doesn't mean "jack"!

    My son is a 5' 6" very lean, well conditioned young man. A lot of people throughout is Jr High and High School years thought it would be fun to pick on the little guy. The jocks were the worst. He still runs into occasionally as an adult. But, my son has an ace up his sleeve that a number of people didn't count on. He's a 6th degree black belt. And the has the ability to take care of himself, even when the odds appear to be stacked against him. A number of high school jocks found this out the hard way.

    What I'm getting at here is simply that the other guy may be a martial arts expert and could do a hell of lot more than an ass whoopin', and quickly.

    I'm 66 years old, bad back, bad feet, bad knees, and arthritis in my hands. I don't fight very well anymore. So, as far as I'm concerned, if the "jack ass" comes on to me with any indication that he's a martial artist, I'm going to equalize the situation with a drawn gun.

    When I was a Federal Agent many years ago in the U.S. Air Force (AFOSI), I had more than one instructor from other law enforcement agencies, federal and local, state that if a subject became the least bit belligerent, and, showed any indication of using martial arts, shoot him.

    It's a hard decision, but for many of us who are starting into our "golden (rust)" years, the option of mixing it up just isn't there anymore. That's one of the reasons a lot of elders carry. To equalize the playing field. As we all know, often the mere presents of the gun in a threatening manner, ends the threat. Shots don't have to be fired, only the immediate potential to do so.

    Yes, retreat is my first order of defense. If I'm allowed to do so, I really don't give a crap what the punk, or anyone else thinks. I'm alive and well. Don't let me retreat and, well, I just might ruin someone's day.

    Well, that's my take, my measly $0.02 on this issue.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
  17. ArizonaLawman

    ArizonaLawman New Member

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    Not stirring the pot at all. I am just satisfying curiosity. The whole thing is purely for my own getting the pulse of how people are feeling. I use these opinions and hypotheticals (though much more detailed and even role-played in my defensive handgun classes)...your responses help me think up new ways to present actions/reactions.
     
  18. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Whip it out & pee on his feet. After that, you should have an opportunity to leave during his confusion.
     
  19. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Don't know about that, I've seen more than one fight start as a pee meets foot incident.
     
  20. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    a situation in which you are a participant in a 2-way argument may not rise to self defense. just depends on your DA. if you are participating in a verbal fight and then the argument turns to weapons thats manslaughter as you were aiding in provoking a fight.

    ive had situations where goblins have accosted me. i just pull out the cell phone and tell them im armed (whether i am or not doesnt matter what the goblin believes) please leave me alone. dial 911 and tell the police there is a individual threatening my safety please send a patrol car.

    so far its worked in 3 different encounters.

    rule #1 goblins are cowards
    rule #2 goblins are stupid (or they wouldnt be gobins)
    rule #3 lying to a goblin is allowed
    rule #4 the police wont arrest you for calling 911 for help when threatened

    knowing that its not cowardice to call for help. its the very first step in justifiable self defense if its possible to do so.