Hydrogen fuel-cells -- idea to use new aluminum-based "sponge" to store H2

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by G66enigma, Apr 18, 2020.

  1. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

    599
    842
    93
    Interesting new development, with hydrogen fuel cells and the supposedly safer storage of the H2 gas.


    'Bath sponge' breakthrough could boost cleaner cars @ BBC, 4/18/20.


    After reading this, I seem to recall that the Hindenberg (Zeppelin) was full of hydrogen and had an aluminum- and iron oxide-based paint on the skin that turned out to be highly reactive. Certain rocket fuels also apparently have powdered aluminum in the fuel mix (when mixed with an oxidizer it can be highly reactive). And, wasn't it Apollo 1 where high pressures and the aluminum present in the capsule raised the risk of fire breaking out?

    Nice advance in the tech, assuming they've worked through all the little problems of incorrectly bringing aluminum and hydrogen together.

    Imagine ... more-cheaply and safely storing H2 onboard moving vehicles. Now, if they can just crack the problem of producing enough of the stuff to matter.
     
    RJF22553 likes this.
  2. Mister Dave

    Mister Dave Well-Known Member

    4,182
    9,273
    113
    Hydrogen production is an energy loser. It takes more energy to make it than it delivers.
     
    Mercator likes this.

  3. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    13,046
    6,932
    113
    Maybe couple production with wind generators. See if 2 wrongs can make a right.
     
    Mercator, locutus and Mister Dave like this.
  4. Mister Dave

    Mister Dave Well-Known Member

    4,182
    9,273
    113
    I spent several years on electric car forums since I have an electric hybrid.

    You probably wouldn't be surprised how often I've heard that nonsense. And don't forget that we can cover the country in solar panels too. Then we can make the steel with electricity instead of coal.

    But we still need oil to make the wind turbine blades. The greenies don't like to hear that.
     
    JTJ likes this.
  5. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    13,046
    6,932
    113
    Years ago my son worked on the Mercedes hydrogen prototype. At the time he said it would take a whole new infrastructure to make them viable. Huge amounts of money.
     
    RJF22553 and Mister Dave like this.
  6. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

    21,625
    12,533
    113
    I believe that we're at least 50 years away from any reasonable alternative to the internal combustion engine.
     
    Mister Dave likes this.
  7. Mister Dave

    Mister Dave Well-Known Member

    4,182
    9,273
    113
    [​IMG]

    Some things never happen as they're presented to us.

    Still waiting on that solid-state lithium battery that was supposed to be in development.

    GM spent something like 2 decades trying to develop this:

     
    towboater likes this.
  8. oO_Rogue_Oo

    oO_Rogue_Oo Well-Known Member

    917
    849
    93
    years ago I worked in the plastics industry and at the time started a little side business (out of my garage) making acrylic displays. Was a very high profit margin market. Anyway, hydrogen is used to "flame polish" the ends or edges of acrylic because of how clean burning it is. What I remember most about it is how I couldn't get it delivered to a residential address. It was too combustible and was only available, delivered to a commercial address. Just something that pops into my head whenever I hear about hydrogen powered cars. An explosion waiting to happen.

    EDIT: Just to put "explosion" into perspective, as you might imagine being in that industry and having unlimited access to hydrogen AND being fond of things that go bang; I played with it quite a bit. I can tell you that a couple of ounces of hydrogen yields a mini mushroom cloud. A few gallons would leave a crater in the road and shrapnel for .............. well quite a ways. You sure don't want to be on the same street when a tank of this goes off.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
    JTJ, Mercator, RJF22553 and 1 other person like this.
  9. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

    12,756
    2,232
    113
    Yes, but it will have zero carbon footprint :D
     
    RJF22553 likes this.
  10. Trez

    Trez Well-Known Member

    5,188
    1,791
    113
    Wasn't there a water powered car? But the guy mysteriously died shortly after?
     
    Mercator likes this.
  11. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    13,046
    6,932
    113
    Was the car registered in Arkansas?
     
  12. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

    12,756
    2,232
    113
    He was a righteous dude. He wanted to build a giant middle finger to the oil embargo’s. That buggy runs beautifully. American ingenuity at its finest.

    Sounds like he had a heart attack at the restaurant. “They poisoned me”, well, that’s what it felt like. RIP.
     
  13. CMAB2SA

    CMAB2SA Active Member

    62
    107
    33
    I will stick to my oil burners. Fun to drive and say it green, lol. 1588520748391.jpeg

    Diesel life.
     
  14. Mister Dave

    Mister Dave Well-Known Member

    4,182
    9,273
    113
    At least as far back as 1980, Stanley Meyer claimed that he had built a dune buggy that ran on water, although he gave inconsistent explanations as to its mode of operation. In some cases, he claimed that he had replaced the spark plugs with a "water splitter", while in other cases it was claimed to rely on a "fuel cell" that split the water into hydrogen and oxygen. The "fuel cell", which he claimed was subjected to an electrical resonance, would split the water mist into hydrogen and oxygen gas, which would then be combusted back into water vapour in a conventional internal combustion engine to produce net energy. Meyer's claims were never independently verified, and in an Ohio court in 1996 he was found guilty of "gross and egregious fraud". He died of an aneurysm in 1998, although conspiracy theories claim that he was poisoned.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car
     
  15. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    13,046
    6,932
    113
    The Mercedes hydrogen system is an electric car with a hydrogen fuel cell that generates electricity. The motor is powered through a buffer (traction) battery which is much smaller and lighter than an all electric car battery system. Braking energy is recovered to charge the battery. It takes 30 minutes or more to charge an all electric car with a range of 300 miles. It takes 5 minutes to refuel the fuel cell with the same range. Battery chargers are much cheaper to install than hydrogen fueling stations. The fueling stations would have to be supplied which could mean tank trucks.
     
  16. Mister Dave

    Mister Dave Well-Known Member

    4,182
    9,273
    113
    It takes a lot longer than that.
     
  17. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    13,046
    6,932
    113
    Some of the chargers force the charge and are hard on batteries.
    There are companies that salvage dead battery packs by removing the good cells and rebuilding the packs. You might get a good pack out of 2 or more dead ones. Batteries have come a long way but still have a long way to go. There has been some interesting work with super capacitors.