How would you feel?

Discussion in 'Semi-Auto Handguns' started by Highpower, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

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    A couple of other threads got me to thinking about this, so I thought I would ask how you would feel in this situation.

    Here's the scene: You are shooting at a local pistol range. Along comes another shooter who sets up on the last lane (right side) of the range. As the other shooter starts blasting away at his target, you notice another pistol he is carrying in a small of the back holster. The gun sits horizontally, grip up, with the muzzle facing to his left side. Cocked and locked.

    In other words, the muzzle is pointing directly at YOU the whole time......

    The official range rules say that all handguns must be unloaded and locked open during cease fires UNLESS they are holstered, so technically he's not breaking any range rules.

    How many of you would be totally comfortable in that position of having the gun lined up on you for the duration?
     
  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    I would not be happy and would ask that he remove it or arrange to not have it covering me. :rolleyes:
     

  3. Franciscomv

    Franciscomv New Member

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    While I know the gun won't go off by itself, I'd approach the gentleman and politely ask him to point it in a safe direction. Or maybe just ask him to switch lanes with me so his pistol is no longer pointed at me.
     
  4. MoHawk

    MoHawk New Member

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    I wouldn't have a huge issue with it to be honest.
     
  5. lonyaeger

    lonyaeger New Member

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    He needs to abide by range rules and I would have a HUGE problem with it. If the guy gets pissed that you ask him to observe the rules....he shouldn't be there in the first place.

    Safety first!!!
     
  6. Mr. Bluesky

    Mr. Bluesky New Member

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    This.

    ten
     
  7. MoHawk

    MoHawk New Member

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    I thought he wasn't breaking any rules....
     
  8. MoHawk

    MoHawk New Member

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  9. Dzscubie

    Dzscubie New Member

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    Th holster is called the SOB (small of the Back) and I have one I use with my 4516. That being said it is supose to be a concealed holster designed to be carried concealed and not in the open. I would not carry it to a range where I would sweep other shooters out of range curtesy. I would ask him to make his weapon safe while on the range and If he gave me a negative response I would leave the range rather than cause a scean, however I would explain to the range offcials why I was leaving.

    Then I'd remove the cores from his tires on my way out of the parking lot... hey, I'm human! :cool:
     
  10. NYPD13

    NYPD13 New Member

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    As long as the shooter wasn't drawing that second pistol then the safest place is in the holster. If it was there simply as his carry piece then this is a non issue. If the shooter was using both and drawing from a holster which covers others than politely speak up, it's not rude to share your knowledge of safety.
     
  11. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

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    OK. Interesting.

    Now let me change it up a bit.....

    Let's say you are out rifle shooting with a buddy. You are shooting next to each other on separate benches, with the rifles supported. (Sand bags, rifle rest, whatever...) You have a cease fire and prepare to go down range to change targets. You ask your buddy to go off and get some refreshments while you go down to change the targets.

    You come back to the firing line and notice his rifle sitting on the bench - bolt closed. You walk over and open the bolt, and out pops a live round. Check the safety - it's on. Any problem here? Is the rifle sitting in a rest another non-issue when you are in front of it?
     
  12. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Not sure what you're trying to get at here. No, I never want a gun pointed at me whether it's in a holster, laying on a rest, or just sitting on a bench. Does it happen, sure, and if I see it I do one of two things:

    1. Mention it to the person and hope they have the sense to understand and correct the issue.

    2. Leave.
     
  13. RugerShootinGal

    RugerShootinGal New Member

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    I would not want that pointed at me antime anywhere safety or no safety I would have asked him politely to fix it I wasnt comfortable.
     
  14. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    if this is a organized range your gonna have a range officer. bring it up to them to enforce the rules. if you got a feeling something isnt right let the range officer determine it and conduct rule enforcement.
     
  15. NYPD13

    NYPD13 New Member

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    A loaded firearm left unattended and pointing downrange during cease fire is of course forbidden as there are several scenarios where it may discharge. A loaded weapon secured in a proper holster will not discharge all by itself or be subjected to the mishandling of others. Also you never stated if that second pistol was being used or possessed. Again if he was actively drawing and holstering from that position then yes I'd have a big problem, if not then it is a non issue.
     
  16. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

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    NGIB:
    What I'm trying to get at here, is that I believe there seems to be 2 different camps of thought when it comes to firearms safety. Possibly a double standard if you will. I'm just trying to understand both sides to see if I can figure out what it is that I am missing between the two.
    I'm not trying to single anybody out here or harass anyone. Nor am I saying one way or the other is right or wrong. I'm just trying to get educated on something that I have not been able to figure out yet.

    NYPD13:
    To answer your question - the second (holstered) pistol is his carry piece and was never touched or handled while holstered. Again, no written range rules were broken since the pistol remained holstered. The rifle being left loaded is a different situation, but that is not the focus of my inquiry here.
    And just for a little more background information - this is a private range where members are expected to police themselves. There are no official range officers present.

    Now can I ask you to expand on your thoughts about the loaded rifle on the bench? Assume that the only two people present at the range were my friend and myself. No one else around to disturb the rifle. How much more likely that the rifle may discharge all by itself, vs the holstered pistol?
    Again, I'm not trying to bait anybody here. I just want to clearly understand your position, and see if there is any difference in the confidence of mechanical safeties between handguns or long guns.

    Thanks. :)
     
  17. NYPD13

    NYPD13 New Member

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    Regarding the benched weapon scenario here are just a few possibilities that I've experienced or have been educated about.
    1. Don't assume you're the only ones at a range. When you're 200 yards down range and another person appears, what control do you have over that rifle?
    2. Creatures of two or four legs may come into contact with that bench causing said rifle to fall. I don't rely on mechanical safeties as all machines fail at some point. Also some mechanisms may become disengaged during impact. (had a Marlin crossbolt safety switch to the fire position after sliding off a tree I'd laid it against - not loaded)
    3. Regarding others being present, I have seen shooters handle another's firearm without permission or knowledge. Imagine some curious inexperienced shooter handling a rifle left as you described while you're downrange incapable of doing anything but duck and pray.
    4. Also for weapons used excessively before being left racked and loaded, there is a possibility of a cook off if a live round is left in an extremely hot chamber. I would not want to be around that regardless of where it's pointed.
    As for the pistol thing, absolute safety is when it's "secured" on my person loaded or otherwise left unloaded. Once you break leather the rules change. Just a few things to think about.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  18. Lowrider

    Lowrider New Member

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    I agree with NYPD13 on this thread. Most folks on this site carry weapons in a holster that is point at some vital parts of their own anatomy and feel perfectly safe. The same with a holstered gun on the range. If the guy were drawing it to fire, it becomes a totally different beast.
     
  19. TheOldMan

    TheOldMan New Member

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    I agree with you NYPD13. If or until he unholstered that weapon, it would not be an issue. If enough folks did not feel confortable with the ranges policy, they could petition to have it changed for more piece of mind.

    In regards to the unattended rifle? the DNR range that I use does not always have a range officer present but everyone who is there follows the same safety rules. No one goes down range unless ALL weapons are open and unloaded. No one touches their weapons until all are back behind the fireing line. Just common sense stuff.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  20. NYPD13

    NYPD13 New Member

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    Unfortunately common sense isn't so common. The range I use most often typically doesn't have a range master outside of weekends, and this is when I see the most stupidity. Being entrenched members of the gun culture it is all of our responsibility to educate others of lesser knowledge and experience. Together we can keep all of our firearm based sports the safest in the nation.