How to treat a Carbine. . .

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by diggsbakes, Apr 13, 2011.

  1. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    So we all know that the optimum gas system for a 16" barreled AR is the mid-length system. We also know that the mid-length system is still fairly new and that most of the 16" barrels out there are still ported at carbine length.

    To treat this increase in pressure and dwell time there are heavier buffers and springs available. There are also "D-Fender" type extractor upgrades to handle the more violent reaction.

    So. . . what is your remedy for a carbine length 16" barrel???

    H2 or H3 buffers?

    Heavier springs?

    Is there something I missed? The reason I ask is because I just obtained a barrel of this nature and it may be put into circulation rather than placed upon a "For Sale" rifle, as I originally thought.
     
  2. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    Heavier buffer
     

  3. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    I currently have a few 16", and all have Enidines in them. They really work.
     
  4. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    Explain. Im not hip to that product (or maybe just the term)?

    That was listed in the original post. . . .:confused:
     
  5. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    Yes w/ question marks as if you were asking if a hevier buffer would help smooth things out. Yes a heavier buffer would help your AR run better. Youll have to test which buffer works best for your firearm. To heavy and it wont cycle.
     
  6. 556plinker

    556plinker New Member

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    An enindine is a hydraulic buffer.....you can find them at Brownells. I bought one for my build but of course that is still in the process. M14's Rock is a pretty knowlegable cat and I would trust his assessment. Its just a hydraulic piston that is compressed by recoil in the shape of a buffer and costs 95$. There are cheaper alternatives but this is suppose to be the CATS MEOW.

    Look at my last post....."AR BUILD important notes to stupid" and I have a pic of it with my current build.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  7. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper New Member

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    I changed out my 16" S&W's stock Carbine Buffer for a Spikes ST-T2 Heavy buffer. Noticeably smoother recoil impulse now, brass not as dented up, and ejection pattern is now around 3-4 o'clock position.
    I've been planning on trying a heavier M16 carrier to see if it smooths it out even more.
    I also want to try a H2 or H3 buffer as well to compare against the spikes.
     
  8. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    depends on the gas tube and porting. current carbine gas tubes reduce the pressure for the standard buffer to function. buffer choice also depends on your buffer tube choice. mixing rifle and carbine tubes and buffers with carbine gas tubes can make for wierd results.

    the midlength ive got is the 458 socom and it works well. but that doesnt really apply to 5.56.

    your buffer choice will hinge more on what size buffer tube your going to use. either rifle or carbine. the more weight you put in the carrier and buffer the closer you may get to not enough ooomph to cycle. dont forget buffer springs also come in rifle and carbine length and vary in weights.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  9. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    Right on. I like when guys post up some useful results. I have a Spike's T2 that's been on the shelf for several months, looks like I'll be testing it with this build along with a standard H2 that I bought for my Bushmaster Dissy.

    OK, I've seen the hydraulic buffers, but I think that's headed in a different direction than I want to go with this rifle. It may be a seller, but it's gonna get shot and compared to others first. If it has "the feel" then it'll stay and another quality AR will be up on the "For Sale" list.

    I think I'm gonna go for a H3 as well, just to throw in here and there, maybe it'll find a home? :)
     
  10. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    The M16 carrier and heavy buffer combo really do wonders. They slow the recoil impulse down noticeably.

    Not sure if the clamor ever blew over or not, but about 15 years ago ATF had some conniption fits over guys using M16 carriers/hammers in their rifles. Even though Colt admitted to sending AR15s with M16 carriers in the 70s.

    Maybe someone knows what the final decision was?
     
  11. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper New Member

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    Perfectly legal:cool:
    From BCM Bolt Carrier Group MPI Auto M16

    Written by Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE), Chief of the Firearms Technology Branch
    ...M16 bolt carriers are not designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun and are not any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled. Further, an M16 bolt carrier is not a firearm as defined in the GCA or a machinegun as defined in the NFA. An M16 bolt carrier is simply a machinegun part and as such its domestic sale and possession is unregulated under the Federal firearms laws. It is not unlawful to utilize a M16 machinegun bolt carrier in a semiautomatic AR15 type rifle.
     
  12. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    just my opinion. im not a lawyer:

    from my research on what is and is not it seems to be the current circle of thought relies heavily on current BATFE interpretation with only batfe memo's as reference points.

    the term "readily able to convert" is subject to a very wide range of interpretation. i wouldnt combine any other M16 part with a bolt carrier as you may cross their unknown line. last thing you wanna do is have a spitting match over possibly regulated NFA items.

    the threshold from different opinions seems to be around 50% part ownership of pieces capable of readily converting a weapon. combinations of certain parts like auto sears hammers bolt carriers safeties etc while possessing a AR15 without a tax stamp may or may not land you in hot water.

    since there seems to be such a huge grey area relying solely on the opinion of a mid level beuarocrat is a line i would be hesitant to approach.

    while a bolt carrier by itself appears to be currently good to go i wouldnt keep a auto hammer sear or safety in my house without a registered M16 or AR15 conversion tax stamp.
     
  13. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Colt 16" w/standard carbine length gas tube, H buffer and Specialized Armament enhanced extractor spring.

    H-2 buffers are appropriate for full auto guns. H-3 is for supressed guns.
     
  14. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    I have a carbine length semi-auto thats runs nice w/ a H2. Im actually thinking about throwing a H3 in it to slow it down a little more. A lot of guys run H2s and H3s in their semi autos. Hell, some people have switched over to A5s running much heavier buffers in a slight longer tube (basically a AR10 receiver extension).
     
  15. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    The heavier (H-2 or H-3) buffer may work just fine in a given rifle, but in my experience the H buffer is all that is needed.
     
  16. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    I'd sure look at the extractor and if the spring/insert look deficient go with the BCM upgrade since it's pretty cheap. I'd skip the D-Fender or O-ring.

    The H buffer should be fine but since you have the Spikes ST-T2 you might as well try it out, Diggs. Depending on the rifle and ammo you use, I'd suspect the H2 would do fine in a 16" carbine gas length barrel. I'm using an H2 in a 16" midlength with an AR-15 style bolt carrier and don't get shortstroking with Wolf, etc. The brass (err, steel) gets kicked out at least six feet, not dribbling out. My other midlength has an M16 weight carrier with H buffer which seems all right. I need to try the H2 with the M16 carrier just for shins and grits.

    If I had a carbine gas length AR I'd be tempted to try out an H3.
     
  17. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    It may be all thats needed but why settle for an H? The smoother the better. I'm something will make my firearm function better I'm going to use it.

    If manufacturers are shipping their 16" middys w/ Hs Id be willing to bet an H2 or H3 would be a better choice for a 16" carbine length GP.
     
  18. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    Im about to give a H3 a try in my 14.5 carbine. It currently has a H2.
     
  19. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    I run a standard carbne buffer in my BCM 14.5" mid-length. It is the standard to which I hold my other rifles in regards to feel. I tried the Spike's T2 and although it noticibly slowed down the cycle, the recoil was not affected to the point that I'd even consider mixing it up.

    My Bushamster Dissipator uses a H (16" carbine) and could probably stand an H2. I'm thinking this rifle will be the same scenario and the barrel is slightly lighter (M4 prof. vs. HBAR). An M16 carrier will also be used (that's all I have. . .

    Now if I could decide what to use as a block or sight base?