How to Purchase NFA weapons from Collectors?

Discussion in 'NFA/Class 3 & FFL Discussion' started by J-Harvey, Apr 12, 2010.

  1. J-Harvey

    J-Harvey New Member

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    Hello again,

    In the past I purchased machine guns through Class III Dealers. Now that I have an 03 C&R License i may wish to buy directly from another collector.

    Since the guns may come from persons I don't know, how can I insure that I actually get what I pay for? What is the customary process for this type of transaction? Particularly when the seller may be several thousand miles from me.

    Thanks,

    Harvey
     
  2. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    NFA status overrides any C&R status. You cannot buy antique machineguns w/ a C&R license. The same goes for other NFA items.
     

  3. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, I have to disagree SOME. Lets take a C&R firearm that is also a full auto- say, a 1928 Thompson SMG, documented to have been made in 1935. And it is registered as an NFA arm with the ATF. You will apply to the BATFE for transfer of the arm, pay them the $200 transfer tax. Supply print card, consent from Chief LEO in your neighborhood. Then wait. Wait some more. In the fullness of time, the BATFE will send you the transfer form, with the $200 stamp attached (no, really, it is a stamp) ONCE you have THAT document in your sweaty little hand, the owner can ship to you, and you can take possession directly without going thru a transfer dealer. And enter the Auto-Ordnance SMG into your bound volume. But you will do all the same things that anyone else does when buying a full auto. There is at least one state that does not permit private ownership of full autos EXCEPT C&R guns. BTW, have you priced a transferrable 1928 Thompson lately?
     
  4. J-Harvey

    J-Harvey New Member

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    Thanks for the replies. Yes, I understand my C&R is only good to purchase C&R, including C&R machineguns that are 'in the fold'. I'm also familiar with the BATFE process.

    What I need to know is when do I pay the seller? At initial purchase, then wait 4 months to see if the gun even shows up or is as-described? Is there some way to hold off on payment until the gun is seen? Maybe an escrow account at a bank?

    Yes, I've seen Colt Thompsons ranging from $22K to $44K. I even saw one listed for just under $1M; he can keep that one.
     
  5. anm2_man

    anm2_man Member

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    C3shooter - I maybe wrong, but don't you still need to go thru a FFL at the sellers location to ship across state lines ?

    PS: to the OP, If the seller wants all of the funds up front, you will have to pay him then. It depends what the seller wants.


     
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    There are several different Federal Firearms Licenses. An 01 FFL is a dealer in firearms. An 02 FFL is Pawnshop licensed to pawn firearms. An 03 FFL is a Collector of Curio & Relic Firearms. That is what I hold, as does the OP. It is not a license to "engage in the business" of buying and selling ANY firearm- but to aid a private citizen in collecting. C&R firearms are those that are 50 yrs old, or older, OR are on a list published by the BATFE (like all Colt Woodsman pistols, regardless of age)

    So, being the holder of an 03 C&R FFL, I find a seller with a nice Marlin 39A made in 1950. I'm in VA, he is in AZ. We agree on price, I send him payment, and a signed cc of my FFL. He puts rifle in mail to me. When I get it, I enter it into my records.

    So a C&R firearm being shipped to me, even across a state line, IS going to a FFL. Just not going to a dealer.

    For more info on a C&R, visit cruffler.com- C&R is the most fun an old man can have for $30 that does not involve the words "dance" and "lap".
     
  7. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    J- depends on what the seller is looking for. And who the seller is. A dealer with a good reputation, and his FFL at stake- not a big issue. Joe Shmuck that I don't know from Adam, and he is 8 states away, and want $20K of my money? Would have to think about that. You might find a dealer that would act as escrow agent- and I know there ARE escrow services out there. OTOH, if he HAS a papered 03, he has been thru a fairly stiff background check, the ATF already has his prints, and for THAT much money, the Postal Inspectors WOULD go after him for mail fraud. Buying a used car is probably more risky.
     
  8. tcustoms

    tcustoms New Member

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    To the OP, you have to pay for the item and then send in your form 4 and wait for your stamp. You can NOT receive an NFA item directly.
    It must go through a class 3 dealer. If its an out of state purchase it will be transferred between the seller and the dealer (on a form 2) you choose to do your transfer.
    Either way it stays with the dealer until your stamp comes in to them. They will call you and away you go.

    NFA trumps everything
     
  9. J-Harvey

    J-Harvey New Member

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    To all who posted, thanks. I've made the deal and paperwork is in the plumbing.

    I called the NFA Branch of the BATFE and they assured me that a C&R SMG can transfer directly to a C&R Licensee, just like any other weapon listed as a C&R.

    Harvey
     
  10. tcustoms

    tcustoms New Member

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    Really? I would want that in writing

    good luck
     
  11. Unk

    Unk New Member Supporter

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    Just 2 dumb questions, how long does it take for the CLEO to get back to a person wanting permission? How does the CLEO decide wether to approve or not approve?

    Thanks,
    Unk
     
  12. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    How long? That, sirrah, depends entirely of the CLEO. Some may complete the paperwork the day recd. Some will not have completed it when Hell freezes over. Why? As many different reasons as there are CLEOs. Why would they turn you down? Don't believe anyone should have a Class III, your Uncle Timmy was a no good drunk, and you probably are too. There is a lot of drug dealing going on out where you live in West Tree Stump, and I don't want any full autos that may end in in a meth lab. Their wife would not.... well, anyway, you get the idea.

    There IS a legal way around the CLEO that will approve NO class III papers- get a lawyer (notice I did NOT say use Legal Zoom or any other computer software, I said GET A LAWYER) and establish a legal trust that will own the Class III. Now, no CLEO approval is required. Nor prints.