How safe is this really?

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by theferg2000, Nov 11, 2010.

  1. theferg2000

    theferg2000 New Member

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    I just saw a video on google where the guy is teaching how to handle yourself in a struggle for a gun (cqc). He recommends grabbing the hand gun in a manner so that it will not cycle. Seems like to practice something like this, you would need to do it with live ammo and really fire (BTW i do not plan on practicing it anyway). Just seems VERY dangerous to be showing as a training suggestion. What you you think?

    here is the video. (it is about a minute long)
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5116628615777591572#docid=3947377611560206823
     
  2. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a good way to put a bullet through your forearm.
     

  3. theferg2000

    theferg2000 New Member

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    I am really trying to start studying more technique, and get more training, but this one was a little strange to me. What about just tearing up your hand by doing it? I don't remember what he was testing, but what would a .45 do to your hand, even if you did not shoot yourself? This seems like a good way to AT BEST tear your hand up pretty good.
     
  4. PTsouthpaw

    PTsouthpaw New Member

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    My thoughts exactly.

    Nothing you will find me doing.
     
  5. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    bad knowledge is better than no knowledge at all.
     
  6. sarge_257

    sarge_257 New Member

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    Grabbing gun

    In all the police academies I have attended and successfully graduated from I have never seen this taught.(3 academies)
    I have seen references to stopping the cylinder on a revolver from turning if one shot has been fired and the gun not recocked. The US Army told us that if you pushed back on the slide the gun(Colt Mdl. 1911) would not fire because the disconnect would be activated. No one volunteered to demonstrate.
    In police academies we are trained to knock the gun from a offenders hand if we are unarmed or do not have time to draw our own weapon. You always hit the back of their hand because that allows the gun to fly out of the open side of the hand.
    Sarge
     
  7. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    I think the video is very amateurish and dangerous. Disarming someone with a loaded gun pointed at you using only your hands requires serious training, confidence, and multi-scenario practice and follow through.

    Disarming someone with a gun by using an extension weapon, such as a baton, stick, bat or sword, also requires serious training and practice.

    Krav Maga

    Warning:
    Do not attempt this gun disarming defense technique without hours and hours, if not years, of proper instruction and training.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07jnqD8wvyE&feature=related"]YouTube - Krav Maga Self Defense Techniques : Front Gun Attack : Krav Maga[/ame]
     
  8. theferg2000

    theferg2000 New Member

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    Interesting video, and well done as he tells you give up your stuff, only do it when you are going to loose your life. The one i posted seems to really be setting up someone for a BAD accident, or a good idea for a dare for kids. Acts like it is no big deal.

    Are you a Krav Maga Guy? My son and i are doing Muay Thai together, but my brother has really gotten into Krav Maga, and he loves it and says it is the greatest. I know for my son (7) it is a bit intense - dont want any crippled first grade bullies in his class, but i am very interested in it, but only watched videos online.
     
  9. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    These types of incidents are life and death situations. You are either going to win or the BG is going to win. I am not going to just stand there and wait for the perp to shoot me.

    I watched an interesting clip on Personal Defense last night where Massad Ayoob demonstrated trapping the opponents weapon as they are trying to draw from a holster. It too would take practice, but much quicker than trying to out draw them with your own weapon.
     
  10. theferg2000

    theferg2000 New Member

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    Do you remember the link? Post it if you have it handy. I would like to take a look.
     
  11. Cory2

    Cory2 New Member

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    It all depends on the gun, but grabbing the slide is a way to make sure youre only shot once... until you let go. I have always been taught to just take the gun which really isnt that hard after you have practiced for a couple hours with a buddy and a dummy gun... or and unloaded firearm (check about 50000 times though and dont have any loaded magazines in the same room as you are practicing). It is true with most semiautomatic pistols that if you rack the slide back you can stop the gun from firing. But while your at it just use your super blackbelt 50th degree skils plus special forces training to fieldstrip the pistol in the blink of an eye while its in there hand like in the movies :rolleyes:... ok with some guns it wouldnt be that hard but still. K.I.S.S. keep it simple stupid. Here is a guy who actually knows what he is talking about and he demonstrates (and trains in real life police and military forces) actual techniques for disarming someone in an effective effecient manner....well he canceled his youtube account apparently.

    Anyway, krav maga isnt the best for learning how to disarm people with firearms because alot of their methods involve sweeping your upper thoratic cavity and face with the bad end of the gun before taking it away... not a good idea. For disarming moves stick with some of the more clasical fighting styles such as jujuitsu (the best self defence style for real life as it is a grapling style, and if you can win on the ground than you win the fight)

    tl;dr Go to a dojo and get someone to teach you, dont learn from youtube.
     
  12. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Negative. Jujitsu is not the best self defense discipline for "real life" and a good fighter should at all costs avoid ending up on the ground in the first place...unless you are the dominate on top and finishing the job. :rolleyes:


    Affirmative, damn good advice!
    [​IMG]


    P.S. Spell check is your friend. ;)
     
  13. theferg2000

    theferg2000 New Member

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    Dont worry, we're not learning over the net - lol. We are getting into Jujitsu also. I thought that these would be the best two for him (i am just doing it with him to get him started - but i will keep with it i think).

    So do you think that is a good starting point for a 7 year old?

    If you want something else to laugh about, when we first started it was in a small class (small town) and from the first on class, i was the second best student... There was one 12 year old girl in there that i have to admit was better than me (i was the oldest, and she was the second oldest. .. i am 34) All the other parents were just watching. It is good to be back in a bigger class and city!!!!
     
  14. Cory2

    Cory2 New Member

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    bah with spell check. As long as you get the message it doesnt really matter how well i spell... but i will do my best... i do not have spell check so bare with me.

    @theferg2000 hey man any martial arts is better than no martial arts. Even taekwondo is better than nothing. They all teach so much more than just how to defend yourself, such as self respect and respect for others, honor, pride, and many other important things. The number 1 rule they taught us where i was trained was to do everything in our power to avoid a fight in the first place but do not let ourselves or others be harmed.

    Jiu jitsu is often refered to by self defence instructors as the best martial arts for self defence. If you know jiu jitsu and your opponent does not than they will be on the ground and you will be in the dominant position. But when i took jiu jitsu they focused alot on an "offencive defence" as i like to call it. Things like breaking an arm when someone tries to punch you, or slamming them to the ground if they grab you (which if done properly can shatter your opponents hip and pelvis like you wouldnt believe). But of course they did teach us how to handle ourselvs on the ground too.

    I am not saying any martial arts is better than any other because they all have their place and if you compare one to another you will have a wide variety of inconclusive outcomes. Look at the sports phenomonon of MMA most of them at the moment do muay thai or kickboxing when standing and can win a fight with just that, but just as many will grab that muay thai guys knee when he brings it up and put him on the ground and put him in any number of joint locks until they cry for mommy. Really the only thing that competes with jiu jitsu on the ground is wrestling (real wrestling not that WWE or whatever the heck its called).

    However, there is a new form of martial arts that originates from hawaii i believe (maybe california) that is supposedly extremely brutal and has a very limited set of moves that cover all situations and allow for a rapid learning rate. It revolves around breaking limbs to my understanding... which is generally a surefire way to end a fight quickly. Also, aikido is very effective at preventing aggresion towards ones self. You can't hurt what you cant hit.

    On a side note, more than 60% of "street fights" end up on the ground. Its always good to supplement one form with other forms unless you are planning to do it competetivly in tournaments or something. Also, when i speak of jiu jitsu i am reffering to brazillian jiu jitsu.

    Do they teach 'body conditioning' where you are training theferg2000?
     
  15. ranger_sxt

    ranger_sxt New Member

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    I've seen this more than once, and performed it in a class (granted, it was an advanced class). It is a valid defensive technique. The slide movement didn't hurt terribly.

    By pushing the bad guy's gun off the line of attack is critical to winning a fight at close ranges. Keeping it off the line of attack and unable to fire is just as important...
     
  16. ranger_sxt

    ranger_sxt New Member

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    It is very good, until your opponents buddy comes up and hits you in the head with a 2x4 while you're getting into position for your Anaconda...
     
  17. Cory2

    Cory2 New Member

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    i dont see how that would turn out better for you if you got snuck up on while you where boxing someone... or had them in a muay thai clinch... or even had a gun on them. If someone hits you in the head with a 2x4 it will have the same effect regardless of the situation or training you have.

    But your right, since there are so many variable's and possibilities your best course of action is to master the force so you can always know what your opponent is doing and just jedi mind trick them into submission :rolleyes:

    Given your scenario i would speculate that someone trained in jiu jitsu would fare better than, or as well as, someone trained in something else as jiu jitsu was orriginally designed to allow an unarmed unarmored person to defeat and armed and armored person....

    Jujutsu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    PBS... now you know
     
  18. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Indeed, but that only works with people highly trained in jujitsu. :rolleyes:

    In the real world, some can just dispatch their adversary quickly and efficiently, while staying upright, alert, focused, and poised to handle others, any means they may choose.

    PBS...now you know! :cool:
     
  19. theferg2000

    theferg2000 New Member

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    It is Brazilian jiu jitsu that we are looking into also. We just moved here recently (to Lexington), so we have not committed yet, but visiting a couple of places in Lexington, we took classes in Georgetown Ky at the community center (As they were the only ones that taught Muay Thai). That is where i was the oldest, and the second oldest was a 12 year old girl, and all the other people my age just watched me and all the kids. My son was really afraid when we got there, so i told him i would do it with him to put him at ease. He loved it once we got started.

    They did not teach any kind of body conditioning there, and i hate to slam it, but i am not sure how good it would have been long term. It was a good start for him, and for me (i have my two lowest facet joints fractured in my back, and the lowest three disks ruptured). I was afraid i would not be able to do much, but i was shocked at how much better my back felt after each class. We are most likely going to be training at the Four Seasons Martial Arts Gym.

    They also offer a Judo class for kids, and i have been considering that, but all my advice is Muay Thai, and BJJ. Plus when i was younger my cousins (always bigger than me) took it, and were advanced belts (not black). But EVERY YEAR when they came up, their dad wanted to have them show off, and would demand that we wrestle, and i beat him EVERY TIME, while he would (literally) cry at the end saying what i did wasn't fair? So i guess that is my hesitation. I did not have any training at the time (took Taekwondo for a little while later on), so what ever he was learning was not very practical if i could beat a bigger guy that had formal training.

    Does any of you know much about Judo? Seems more kid friendly, but again, i want him to be in the best thing possible (age appropriate). I dont know that i myself would be a candidate for either, but then again i was surprised by the Muay Thai.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
  20. Cory2

    Cory2 New Member

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    @ IGETEVEN we will have to agree to disagree friend. this is why we own guns. so we dont have to be masters of the force :D

    @theferg2000 From what i know of judo is a fairly modern martial arts form primarily designed for tournaments and "show". I dabled in it when i was younger before settling with brazilian jiu jitsu and isshin ryu.

    Judo is more intended for show than actual combat which would probably explain why what you where doing was "unfair" as it wasnt part of judo. Personally i would not recommend judo to someone who is looking for an actual method of self defence. As with many "show forms" they can be quite restrictive on the situations you are able to handle. It is a great form for a supplementary form latter in life but at an early age of 7 i wouldn't suggest it. I can only speak for my self but i know that the arts i took for about a year starting at 7 have had a profound impact on my fighting style now 15 years later. When me and my friends spar ( i have odd friends like me that like to strive to develop better technique and also have martial arts background.. 1 in the army heading towards special forces and the other did muay thai competitively for several years) they tell me they can see the bjj and isshinryu when we spar. But they also say i have some wierd mix of the two going on. So i assume that any martial arts you take when you are young will stick with you and be your "base" style for the rest of your life. As you probably do not want your son to have a base fighting style designed for show and not self defence i would not recomend judo for him at such an early age. But the best option is to do some research and talk to your sensei about the subject and determine the proper course of action on your own.

    I can say that jiu jitsu saved my butt more than once when i was younger as i was a small kid. Being able to put the bigger kids on the ground rapidly helped me stop the bullies and such without having to stand toe to toe with them. It usually scared them off too so they would leave me alone after the first time. Actually now that i think about it, it helped me a few times in highschool too even though it had been a decade since i had taken any classes. my 2 cents
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010