How Often Are Guns Actually Used In Self Defense?

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by Dallas53, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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  2. Balota

    Balota ... but I used to play keyboards. Staff Member

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    If I read it right, even the anti reports suggest something like 100,000 per year. That's 100,000 good reasons in my opinion.

    Also, the antis argue that some of the under reporting of DGU is because the person using the gun (without firing it) fears the investigation process. The reason for that fear is the distorted reporting by the media that can lead to unnecessary loss of freedom for the defender.
     
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  3. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    IMO, if a gun is pulled, but not fired, and just it's presence of being there deterred the criminal act, the gun still performed it's job to satisfaction. in such cases, i suspect that many never report the attempted criminal act, because it never was completed because of the presence of the gun.

    so exactly who could quantify such a thing? IMO, you can't!

    Good Morning Mr. Balota.
     
  4. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And that kind of "Harvard" bullsh!t is why I will not listen to NPR.
     
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  5. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    I pretty much think that DGU numbers are much like "official guesses" at the number of gun owners and gun in the nation.
    Laughingly low. For the reasons mentioned.

    I know that here in my neck of the woods pulling a firearm on someone likely will never be reported. By either side.
     
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  6. Shopfox

    Shopfox Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a stupid question: if involved in a self-defense shooting in a public place, are you legally obligated to contact the police?

    It's always been my thought, "they can speak to my attorney, if they find me and if they have questions."
     
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  7. microadventure

    microadventure Well-Known Member

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    if you report it yourself you demonstrate that you have nothing to hide

    if you do not you it will be assumed you were up to no good.

    a wise person will wait at least 24 hours before they describe what happened. it's called a fugue state, and it gets you in trouble.
     
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  8. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    First of all the article came from Harvard and is very likely fantasy. Tell the same lie often enough and suckers will believe you. In the words of Mark Twain "There are lies, Damn lies and Statistics."
    If you draw your weapon you better report it and be the 1st one to report it. You can and probably will be charged with a crime if you dont and they report it. If I have to draw my weapon the 2nd thing I draw will be my cell phone. I will be filing charges against the cause of my drawing my firearm. CYA cover your a$$.
    The NRA publishes The Armed Citizen listing incidents of firearms used in self defense.
     
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  9. Dearhunter

    Dearhunter Supporting Member Supporter

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    I do not care what they print!! As for myself, I hope I never have to pull my gun, but I am not going to stop carrying because someone prints something to stir up controversy. I also carry a first aid kit in my car hoping never having to use it, but like my gun, if you ever need it you got it.
     
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  10. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    well two different lines of thought go through my head on this. if i were to draw my weapon, but not discharge it, yes, i'm going to report it to LE. for two reasons. one, first of all to cover my own butt legally, in case someone else were to report me pulling a gun. then they would know why i had pulled it, but not discharged it, and that it was a justified reason for doing so. second, what if i did pull my weapon, but didn't discharge it, and the mere presence deterred a criminal act towards me, but i didn't report it, and a description of the potential attacker, and he moved on to a softer target that wasn't armed, and they hurt, or killed that person? not acceptable IMO.

    those are my reasons that if my weapon is pulled, but not discharged, yes, there would be a police report filed.
     
  11. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

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    Most shootings for any reason are local news. The way the national news media aggregate the incidents, it makes life in America look like hell. (Not that it turned away anyone at the southern border).

    This is a 300+ million nation, with probably a 100 million firearms in possession. If you look at the real odds and numbers, it is remarkable how RARELY the so called “gun violence” happens to people who themselves are not looking to get in trouble.
     
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  12. PaBushMan

    PaBushMan Well-Known Member

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    I have shown my gun by just pulling my jacket open to avoid a possible muging. A black guy was staring me down real hard on my way to the ATM. My 6th sense kicked in and i exposed my side arm. He changed course real quick.
     
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  13. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I was not surprised by the supposition of the article. I have never personally known a civilian who used a gun in a self defense situation. Certainly, it happens, just not as often as some folks think. It doesn't keep me from carrying, but the odds are that if I never carried, I would never suffer from the consequences.

    The business about pulling a gun to "prevent a potential crime" is, in my mind, usually pretty lame and liable to end you up in the court system. I believe in the same philosophy as the Samurai, the gun should stay holstered until you need to shoot someone. If they need shot, they need shot, not threatened. If they do not need to be shot, you may have no legal standing to threaten their lives. Pulling the gun could change the relative position of victim and criminal.
     
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  14. Balota

    Balota ... but I used to play keyboards. Staff Member

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    True. Drawing but not firing could be viewed as brandishing, which is a crime in most places. But the reasonable man principle still applies. If you have a good reason to draw, you should be able to state that reason clearly and consistently. Ideally there would be a witness who can corroborate the story.

    The act of drawing your pistol can cause the opponent to change their actions. But the change should be virtually instantaneous. The reason for drawing should be good enough to justify pulling the trigger.

    So your explanation to LE should be something like:

    I saw X making credible threats. I believed that I needed to act to prevent death or serious injury. When I drew my gun, X saw me drawing and immediately stopped being a threat.

    Threat before drawing. Situation changed immediately. If it doesn't fit that pattern, you might have a problem.
     
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  15. Missouribound

    Missouribound Well-Known Member

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    The actual count is much higher. We have Barack Obama to thank for the CDC actually doing the study. After the Sandy Hook shooting, the token black president vowed to have gun usage looked into in a effort to begin restricting guns. Unfortunately, for HIM, the CDC determined after several months of real studying, not CNN polls, that guns are used for defensive purposes, by civilians between 1.5 and 2 million times every year. He then asked individual universities to do in depth studies as well.....they came up with the same results.
    After obtaining this information his course of action was to never mention it again. In typical democratic style he decided that that information would not serve his agenda.
     
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  16. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    he was at least smart enough to walk away from that one, since he couldn't fit it, to further his agenda!
     
  17. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    How do you count my experience where two guys were stalking my wife through a parking lot as she was catching up to me, which still didn't deter them, until they saw my OC firearm.

    Were they actually just lost in the parking lot? The did the mugging pulled off a couple of days later by two guys in the same parking lot in a similar description vehicle not really them?

    Or my other two experiences where people coming up to me at a gas station for some unknown reason have a sudden change of heart when they also saw my OC firearm?

    I'm convinced the 1st incident was intended to be a crime. One gas station maybe, other one less likely, but who knows? all I know is my firearm actively changed someone's behavior.
     
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  18. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    something to think about. how many times, has just the presence of a firearm deterred a criminal act? IMO, we may never really know, because there just isn't anyway to accurately quantify such a thing.

    another thing to consider as well, the gun also served it's purpose, without having have fired a shot either.
     
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  19. Missouribound

    Missouribound Well-Known Member

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    Well that may be impossible to figure out. It's estimated that every time you pull your gun in defense only once in 100 will it be fired. Often time the presence of a weapon can be a deterrent. How often do gun shops get held up? Or police stations? Has any one ever robbed a NRA convention?
    Every time the government passes an anti-gun law they claim it will save thousands of lives....yet there is no way of proving it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018 at 8:28 PM
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  20. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    exactly my point. there is no way that anyone can accurately quantify and answer to that question.

    now, here is my beliefs on this, regardless of whether we can ever accurately quantify such answers, i most assuredly do believe that just the mere presence of a firearm can be a deterrent to a criminal act. and that i support and will be why i will always carry. if a criminal sees my weapon, and decides to abort his attempted criminal behavior, then two things stand out and come out as positives for me, one, i didn't have to shoot anyone, (which is exactly what i would prefer anyways.) and two, my firearm served it's intended purposes and did it's job. i call that a win all the way around for everyone.