How much did you pay to start your trust?

Discussion in 'NFA/Class 3 & FFL Discussion' started by jordan89, Aug 5, 2012.

  1. jordan89

    jordan89 New Member

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    My LGS is now a class 3 dealer. They have gotten an order of suppressors in stock and I was planning on buying one. The sheriff in my county will not sign off on it though. My local shop has partnered up with their lawyer to set up trusts, the cost is $350 for the trust. It seems a little expensive to me seeing as the suppressor is $200 and another $200 for the tax stamp. For those of you that have set up a trust before how much did you pay?

    Also, this might be a question for a lawyer but can you put multiple NFA items on the same trust? Say I wanted to buy 2 suppressors could I put them together?
     
  2. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Jordan, what kind d of suppressor is it I have never see A suppressor for $200. My guess is ur not getting much for ur money most decent suppressors start at $400 and go up to $1200 plus the $200 tax. Just make sure you can disassemble it to clean it
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2012

  3. msup752

    msup752 New Member

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    There are a lot of good $200 cans. Many will disassemble and most are made of aluminum.
    I just sent in my trust with a form 4 for my .22 can. I did a lot of research and opted to use Quicken and exported the documents to Word to edit them. It allowed me to shorten the trust name from the very long "John Matthew Smith and Jane Michele Smith Revocable living trust" to something shorter like "Smith revocable living trust".
    A friend already had the software ($19 or less online as 2009 is the last year it was made) so there was no cost to me. Notary cost me nothing at my bank so just ink and paper expenses.
    $350 sounds like a good price for an attorney drawn Trust but not good compared to almost free.
    Attorneys say they offer NFA specific language and peace of mind. In all of my searching, I have never found out what the specific language is that they add, it must be a well kept attorney secret. The worst I have found happening is the BATFE will send the paperwork back for corrections.
    The best thing about a trust is you only have to do it once. When you get a stamp and take a can home, add it to the schedule of property so it belongs to the trust. Want more cans? Just take a copy of your trust and updated schedules for any further form 4's! No more running around for photos, fingerprints, chiefs signature, etc!
     
  4. jordan89

    jordan89 New Member

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    I can't remember the name of the company. I know they are located in Evansville, IN. But can't recall who made it....i'll update once I find out. I'll also search some reviews on that company before I buy.

    Msup752, thanks for the info! I think I might see if I can get a copy of that software. Even, if I can't find it I plan on buying multiple suppressors and a SBR in the future so $350 as a one time fee still isn't bad.
     
  5. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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    I got my trust setup for $200. He does most of Nevada gun owners' trusts.
     
  6. NativH

    NativH New Member

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    I paid $450 to have a local attorney, who is basically a NFA attorney (that is a core part of his business and he owns machineguns), write up my trust. Other local "NFA attorneys" wanted upwards of $600. Considering what is at risk and the cost of my first two machineguns ($25K), the $450 didn't bother me at all. Never had one hickup from the BATFE either so it seems to work for them also. Have a silencer for my M4 on approval and sold both of my machineguns, delivered them just last week.

    Had some paperwork/weapon description discrepancies that I had to work out with the BATFE and they were most helpful and professional. Robin, in Martinsburg,WV seemed to be a very kind and helpful BATFE agent in my book.
     
  7. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Mine was 350 through a local nfa attourney. You can put as many nfa items on a trust as you have ink and paper to fillout the schedule of assets.
     
  8. jordan89

    jordan89 New Member

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  9. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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    Add a lil bit more.. u will get a well known Gemtech Outback 2D. Which i just ordered from my LGS. Costed me $246
     
  10. KingTiger

    KingTiger Member

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    My local SOT used Quicken Willmaker to make me a Revocable Living Trust for free. Took about 20 minutes. I've bought 4 suppressors & a SMG thru him. Other dealers in my area will do the same. Competition is a good thing.
     
  11. NativH

    NativH New Member

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    I'm not about to say that your Trust is any less legal or worse than one drawn up by an attorney. But considering the penalties that come from an illegal act when NFA weapons are involved, I went with an attorney that specializes in these trusts. If and when mine is ever questioned, I have someone that is licensed on my side of the table and when dealing with other attorneys and a judge, you definitely want that.

    The fact that the BATFE has accepted yours in the past means nothing about what they may do in the future. Case in point, I just sold my FA Steyr AUG. I received it with erroneous dimensional data that was caught by the BATFE when I tried to transfer it. It made it through 2 Form 3's and a Form 4 with the incorrect barrel length before the BATFE called me on it. They accepted my explanation and supporting data and approved the transfer, with corrected barrel length, but it just goes to show that there can always be mistakes that are caught at a later date. And if I ever end up in front of a judge, with a BATFE agent and US attorney at the other table, I don't want to bring a canned legal program as my defense.

    Again, there is probably a zero chance that a non-attorney produced trust will cause problems. But I have way too much to lose to run the risk over $450. Especially when I am investing $20K+ just to play the field.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  12. msup752

    msup752 New Member

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    The BATFE has a legal department look over trusts for validity. If there is a problem, they will kick it back and it can be fixed.

    I'm no attorney but I've never seen the BATFE prosecute anyone over these transfers or try to collect an NFA item after a transfer has been approved. Some lawyers will link a single case but by reading into it showed no confiscation and no criminal prosecution. It just had some paperwork issues that were fixed.

    I also can guess that any attorney who draws up a trust and then later it has issues that involve criminal or civil issues is probably not going to defend the trust in court for free. So no matter how a trust was drawn, it will cost to have it defended in court.

    An attorney might be better for making sure the trust is done right the first time or if there is some specific non standard requests needed for it. It may be better if a trust is kicked back because an attorney would likely re draft it to fix those issues for low or no cost.
     
  13. PanBaccha

    PanBaccha New Member

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    As you will see. I am out of the loop here. I know what's a trust. But as it concerns strictly firearms and suppressors, as posted above by several members, I'm afraid I don't know what it means. Am I missing something? :confused:
     
  14. msup752

    msup752 New Member

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    A trust can own an NFA item amongst many other things. It has many advantages over transferring NFA items to a specific individual.
     
  15. NativH

    NativH New Member

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    Not disagreeing, but having been in court (civil thankfully) more than a couple of times, playing as an individual is a no win situation. Courts are the domain of attorneys and I have even been better served in traffic court by having an attorney with me (dismissed 100% of the time to date). Of course they don't work for free, but I can almost guarantee you one will never show up for you in a case where you did a Quicken document. And the fact the BATFE hasn't done something yet, certainly doesn't preclude them in the future. And with numbnuts and his crew in Washington, nothing would surprise me less than to have them come hunting amongst us NFA'ers.
     
  16. 1911love

    1911love New Member

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    I'm currently single, but have heard your wife can be on a trust so you both can possess the NFA items. If I start a trust and then get married would I be able to add her to the trust?
     
  17. NativH

    NativH New Member

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    Yes you can, and should unless NFA items are locked in a safe she has no access to.
     
  18. 1911love

    1911love New Member

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    Thanks, I was debating going the trust route. Seems like a better option. Anyone know of any downsides to going the trust route?