How Military Guns Make the Civilian Market

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by John_Deer, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    The Atlantic usually is realistic when writing about firearms. This time they are way off base. They don't realize that if the army selects a new pistol it will be a pistol currently on the market. Moreover, they are trying to resurrect the AWB. Not to mention all the typical anti gun lies. I just posted the first couple paragraphs.

    The U.S. Army plans to select a new standard-issue handgun. If history is a guide, similar pistols will soon start appearing at gun stores and crime scenes near you.

    This week, the U.S. Army will brief arms manufacturers on the design requirements for a new standard-issue handgun. Several gun makers will compete for the lucrative contract, developing weapons that are more reliable and more powerful than those currently in service. Officials say the upgrade is overdue—it’s been nearly 30 years since the Army adopted the Beretta M9. But the last time the military challenged the industry to make a better handgun, all the innovations intended for the battlefield also ended up in the consumer market, and the severity of civilian shootings soared.
    Studying gunshot injuries in the D.C. area in the 1980s, Daniel Webster of Johns Hopkins University noticed an alarming trend—as time went on, more and more patients were arriving at the emergency room with multiple bullet wounds. In 1983, at the beginning of the study period, only about a quarter of gunshot patients had multiple injuries, but in the last two years of the study, that proportion had risen to 43 percent. Over the same period, semiautomatic pistols with a capacity of 15-rounds (or more) were replacing six-shot revolvers as the most popular firearms in the country. It’s not difficult to see the correlation—more bullets in the guns, more bullets in the victims. But why had guns changed so radically in such a short period of time?
    In 1980 the Joint Services Small Arms Program invited the firearms industry to develop a new military handgun, with more than double the capacity of the sidearm American troops had been issued previously. At the time, soldiers were still using essentially the same handgun their grandfathers had carried into the trenches of World War I, a pistol John Browning had designed at the turn of the century. Its standard magazine held just seven rounds. The U.S. Army had a long wish list for a replacement, with 72 mandatory design requirements and 13 additional “desirable” features. According to Leroy Thompson, author of The Beretta M9 Pistol, “many of these mandatory requirements were very military-specific, which made it difficult for an off-the-shelf commercial pistol to fulfill them without alteration.”


    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ilitary-guns-make-the-civilian-market/375123/
     
  2. artbrownsr

    artbrownsr Forum Chaplain Lifetime Supporter

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    Similar posting and discussion here.
    ww.firearmstalk.com/forums/f14/army-wants-new-handgun-108376/index9.html#post1607926
     

  3. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    actually they just renewed an order for more M9's from Beretta over the next five years. hardly makes sense they would be buying more pistols from the current supplier if they were looking for an alternative i would think.

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/07/30/us-army-buys-beretta-m9-pistols/

    plus there is a thread that's been running about this.

    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f14/army-wants-new-handgun-108376/

    plus another thread on the same discussion of military arms causing more crime in the civilian world.

    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/amazing-stupidity-109064/
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014
  4. DrFootball

    DrFootball disappointed & disgusted, But DETERMINED... Lifetime Supporter

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    the Atlantic

    This Matt Valentine is Anally Rectally Inverted, and so are all those Liberals who Posted Comments and Wet their pants at the sight of a real Firearm. When Matt Valentine has the Holes In his Body I have He can Speak to Gun Violence,..otherwise he should stick to teaching liberal Journalism courses...
     
  5. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Matt Valentine is only attempting to spread hysteria over nothing. Apparently he has never seen any shoot a revolver who is skilled in the use of a speed loader.
     
  6. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    If we just didnt make unsafe things, we would all be safe!

    People make up stories in their heads and if they say them enough time they actually seem to believe them even if they arent true. Sure developers of Military Arms and Armament have improved upon early designs but that hasnt made the world any less safe and hasnt caused leagues of civilian armies to try to overthrow the Government, it just hasnt happened that way. That which they fear is more about their ignorance than our creativity.

    Why wouldnt manufacturers attempt to improve on that which they make, New and improved isnt just for dish detergent, every producer of any product is always trying to better their goods as they should. The author of the scared about military guns getting into civilian hands really doesnt understand that he should fear and respect an 1810 musket as much as he does the Black Plastic military looking shooting thingy!

    The bionic Human is coming on fast, thanks to the military and a few wars we got our folks back without arms and legs. Is anyone afraid that criminal Steve Austins might decide to start breaking through walls and tearing folks limbs off with their high powered militaristic Arms? Hey, its true, I saw it on TV, bionic arms are much more dangerous than Fire"Arms" of any sort.

    So we really love the benefits were derived from sending folks into space as long as its not dangerous on earth but refuse to accept that their is no danger from anything without a human mind and body attached to it and likely nothing but an Oreo Cookie is completely safe once its in a humans hands.
     
  7. eatmydust

    eatmydust New Member

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    Isn't it amazing that Cain was even able(pun not intended:rolleyes:) to kill Able without the use of some semi-auto-black-death-30-round-assault-evil-exploding-bullet-concealed weapon?

    The reporter makes it sound like a new Army pistol will trigger TEOTWAWKI.
     
  8. CrazedJava

    CrazedJava New Member

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    The Atlantic is hardly the only news outlet going apoplectic over the Army getting a new handgun. It is the 3rd article I have read by three different authors all essentially saying the same thing.

    All three displaying a complete and utter ignorance for what they are talking about.

    A .45 ACP bullet fired from a Hi-Point has the same basic energy as a 1911. Throw a carbine length barrel on there and you may vary some of the results in terms of accuracy, range, and perhaps somewhat better overall performance (ie: full powder burn) but essentially it's still a pistol round and it will do what it was designed to do regardless of platform.

    I know, I'm horribly oversimplifying, but most people here get what I am talking about. Whatever the Army selects, it's counterpart is already on the civilian market. Every handgun in the 1980 trials came from a civilian design. Some were modified slightly to meet the Army requirements.

    What's amazing is the assumptions made on an article on Yahoo! Finance (of all places) that talked about the increase in multiple gun shot wounds. No hard facts or statistics, just anecdotes from emergency room doctors. Problem is, does that have any direct connection to larger capacity magazines? Also, it ignores the fact that handguns have been able to hold more than 10 rounds for decades. I don't even remember when the Hi-Power was introduced, but let's just say since at least the 1930's.

    Hysteria is all they have left, so it appears anti-gunners are doubling down on it.
     
  9. DrFootball

    DrFootball disappointed & disgusted, But DETERMINED... Lifetime Supporter

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    John, the only thing he is "Hysterically Spreading" is the lack of understanding and knowledge of firearms. My estranged Brother Turned into a Red Hot "socialist" and he knows more about Guns then This Guy Valentine. He should be ashamed to call him self a Professor ofJournalism.
     
  10. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    Wow, another "cause unrelated to the stated effect" article.

    "The military bought these, and gun deaths went up" 2 + 2 = 3.

    non se·qui·tur

    noun \ˈnän-ˈse-kwə-tər also -ˌtu̇r\ : a statement that is not connected in a logical or clear way to anything said before it


    I can be a liberal journalist too:

    Cars with more than 200 horsepower are common today, so more cell phone caused accidents are occurring.


    If there was such a thing as the Ralph Wiggum School of Journalism...
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014
  11. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

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    Good job ignorant Wan Kenobi. You watch Legit companies try to physically arm the nation's military, so you pretend that it's your job to mentally arm the nations Hillitary. Pat yourself on the back and make sure that you don't forget to run a story when that new handpistol comes out with it's 20 bullet clip and how its more dangerous than the old 6 shot pistols with their 6 shot bullet clips.
     
  12. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

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    Glock 18 w/33 rd magazines as standard issue. Drums for special units.

    Just saying.... :D
     
  13. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

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    Rosie? is that you? :confused:

    :p
     
  14. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    And, Firearms related injuries and deaths have increased exponentially since the Army adopted camoflauge uniforms in the 60's. Obviously cammo is causing these unecessary deaths!
     
  15. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

    Chill yo... What do you expect from Atlantic? That's what it does. It is not a news source of record.

    Second, most journalists, good or bad, nave no professional knowledge of the subject. What they do know is how to write a story that gets your attention. Looks like someone did. London Bridge ain't comin down. :)
     
  16. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The army may want a new toy, but I'm not going to hold my breath until they actually get a new toy.

    Considering how well the M-9 and M-11 have served, and how rarely a handgun is used in battle, the folks who control the purse strings are certainly gong to apply "strict scrutiny."
     
  17. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe that if the Army abandoned the M-9 tomorrow for a new gun, in the present environment, they would be melted down or sold to some banana republic before they hit the civilian streets. Nor do I see any other military weapons ever hitting the surplus market. Select fire or autos, never, and that doesn't leave much more.

    The gov doesn't too much care about us having Mausers, Mosins, and other bolts, but we can't be trusted with the good stuff.
     
  18. kryptar19

    kryptar19 New Member

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    It's simple really, Cain used an "Assalt Rock". Just ask Dianne Feinstein, she was probably there. :D
     
  19. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    As Chainfire suggested, it is highly dubious that greater availability of M9 pistols would make the streets any more dangerous if Uncle Sam dumped all of them onto the civilian market. Most armed criminals already have semi-automatic pistols.

    The M9 pistol is sold to civilians as we speak, has been for many years, and there is not a rash of civilians being shot with M9's.

    Obama will almost certainly give the surplus pistols to America's future enemies, anyway.

    It won't matter what pistol the Army selects next, if it isn't a laser pistol then whatever is selected will be a very minor improvement over current issue (most likely something with slightly better service life, easier maintenance, and lower cost).
     
  20. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    We can't control criminal activity through more legislation, nor can we control the mentally ill or stupid people. I bet if you look long and hard you can find that some poor bastard choked to death on a Oreo cookie.

    All we can do is keep our homes and families away from dangerous people. If dangerous people do effect our lives all we can do is stop them from causing harm to ourselves and the ones we love.

    I read the Atlantic quite a bit. They generally report the truth when it comes to guns. However, this "writer" has the credibility of the Atlantic at risk. I hope the Atlantic sees the folly in this mans words and sends him kicking cans down the road.

    This article is what I usually see in the Atlantic. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...se-for-more-guns-and-more-gun-control/309161/
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014