How Many Lower Receivers what can I own in Massachusetts ?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by goliath, Oct 30, 2010.

  1. goliath

    goliath New Member

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    Hi Folks, I have many questions

    I live in Massachusetts and I have class A and one handgun (no rifles). I want to build 2 AR's (this is my first time) but my question is, what limit of Lower receivers can I buy and own in Massachusetts ??

    A lower receivers in Massachusetts counts like a rifle or a part ?

    The FFL dealer register each lower on my name ??

    I read this comment in other forum , thats true ??

    As for quantity there is no restriction. But your name will ping with the FBI or ATF and they will watch you for a few months.

    If you buy 15 guns in 12 months you are put on a secret FBI watchlist. Not forever but still.

    Please, I need to clarify my doubt. thanks
     
  2. fixxer

    fixxer New Member

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    LOL. If it's secret, then ask them how THEY know about it. :rolleyes:
     

  3. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    A completed AR lower IS a firearm in all 50 states. I don't know about dealer "registering" them to you as that is not what happens in the "free States". You would have to consult an FFL Dealer in Assatwo****s for how this works in your state.

    As far as getting on a "watch list"? The only information that is transmitted about your purchase when an NICS check is done is whether the firearm is a handgun or long gun. How would ATF/FBI put you on a wach list for buying two AR lowers when all they will know is you purchased two firearms, period.

    If you buy 15 in a year, someone will likely take notice. That is a bit unusual. Unusual, not illegal. You will likely get a visit from your friendly Federal agent asking why you purchased so many. "I got an inheritance and finally got to guy the guns I have wanted for the last 20 years." or "I got burglarized and am replacing my stolen collection with insurance money" "Could I see them, please?" The correct answer here is "Sure, Come on in!" Show them what you bought. They already know serial numbers, makes and models. They have gone to the dealer and jotted down all pertinant information about said purchases. They are just trying to confirm you are not getting into the informal (illegal) gun business. If you bought 15 and only have 2....They are going to have some probing questions. You probably should know something about where the others went. This is what we pay them for, to stop ILLEGAL firearms transactions. Not doing anything illegal? This will be a short and friendly conversation.
     
  4. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    There is no law that I am aware of that limits the amounts of guns a person can buy. Here in Arizona a person who bought over 300 guns in a year & then tried to sell off most of them was recently tried by the ATF & found innocent of any crime. Would this be a State Law?
    About the receiver, any receiver will count as a gun. Even a flat (unbent) piece of sheet metal (AK Receiver) will require you to fill out a form 4473 and will list the serial # of said receiver. As far as registration goes, here in AZ unless the ATF happens to see that particular form, no registration exists
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2010
  5. kenhesr

    kenhesr New Member

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    Sorry, can't help on your state questions, but around here I buy AR-15 stripped lower frames 3 at a time.

    My FFL dealer told me he can put 3 weapons on the same Fed. yellow form. I hate to fill out the form, so I buy a lot of groups of 3. I've only bought new weapons from or thru this one dealer for the past 35 years, so its not a problem to do.

    My last purchase, I bought 1 new rifle & 2 AR lowers, don't need the lowers right now, but I like to keep a few around. Darn ARs are addictive!

    I think the most weapons, (that had to have the yellow form filled out) I've ever bought in a year was 21 and I never heard a word from anyone.
     
  6. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    Actually, if your dealer would read the instructions included with the form he'll see that he can simply add as many pieces of paper he needs to the form. In other words you can put as many guns as you want on one 4473 form. Last week I put 15 guns on one form.
     
  7. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    I certainly don't agree with much you have posted here. There exists no Federal law limiting the amount of guns anyone can own, nor does a law exist that defines exactly how many guns you can sell off. Fact is you can legally sell every gun in your collection, for any reason- at any time you wish. If Any Law Enforcement Officer ever has a question for me about where anything might reside, they better damn well produce a Warrant. In fact The #1 most important thing to say to any Law Officer is Nothing. If you are in enough trouble to justfy a warrant, you need an attorney Right Now. Immediately it is now time to STFU- Do not incriminate yourself.
     
  8. kenhesr

    kenhesr New Member

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    bill, I didn't want to get too technical, thought this was just going to be a "short" reply. goliath sounded like he was only interested in getting 2 lowers and I couldn't answer the state law part of his question anyway, sorry goliath!

    To be absolutely specific, I would have typed;

    My FFL dealer told me he could only list 3 weapons in the body of the Fed. yellow form, (Form 4473) without attaching additional pieces of paper with the information required per. Sec. D Questions 24-28 as specified by Item #12 in the back of Form 4473, due to the fact that Sec. D only has spaces for 3 entries in the body of the form.

    My point was that I hate to fill out that yellow form. A lot of people don't know you can buy over 1 weapon per form. I hardly ever need to purchase over 3 serial numbered items at the same time, so in order to keep it simple, I LIKE to fill out my weapons purchases with AR lowers or If I want 1 lower, I buy 3 to max out the body of the 4473 form and I get a price break too.

    Did I mention that I'm not an FFL, never bought 15 weapons on the same day. I did help pick up half an ACAV full one day NW of Xuan Loc though, but thats a whole nuther post! Ken
     
  9. goliath

    goliath New Member

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    Thanks kenhesr and the other users to answers my question. And don't worry.

    More Info , More Knowledge.

    I looking for more info in google and I found this:

    A lower receiver is just that, a lower receiver. It is the one item that is transfered. Untill completed (built into a rifle/ pistol) it cannot be registered with the state.

    The reciever does not get registered by the FFL, it is only transfered to you. You cannot register (FA 10) it untill you have completed it.


    Is that true ??
     
  10. kenhesr

    kenhesr New Member

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    Morning goliath, sounds like you have some State laws to contend with that most of us don't.

    Most states you buy the lower, the dealer has you fill out the Federal 4473 form and that is it.!!

    The Feds consider the part of the weapon with the serial number to be THE weapon. AR lower rec, grip frame on a pistol etc. But thats Federal Law!

    Some state laws are crazy! 10 rd mags, pre ban - post ban laws still in effect, you can only purchase so many weapons per month, silly crap like that.

    Don't know the laws in your area, ask a few local FFL guys, they should know.

    Good luck with your build, its not real hard and when you're done you'll know all about them. Ken
     
  11. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Well, Mr. Bill...You absolutely do not have to agree with anything I have said on this forum. That is your right to disagree, or be disagreable, take yourchoice. The fact of the matter is there is no need for a warrant to knock and talk. If you choose not to talk, that too is your right. I never said anthing about incriminating yourself. If you purchased several AR platorm rifles (or lowers) that can be considered "Reasonable Suspicion" that will cause an Agent to knock on your door. He will ask if he can see the rifles/lowers to confirm you still have them. If you choose to slam the door in his face, that is your right. Do not be surprised if a microscope is inserted into your nether region until they can confirm you are on the up and up.

    There is no law dictating how many guns you can buy. There is a law against dealing in firearms w/o a license. If you have made a straw purchase or two, you will grab much unwanted attention. In this case I,too, would recommend silence and the consultation with an Attorney.

    Your confrontational attitude will not set well with those sworn to uphold the laws of the land. If you disagree with the law, vote in a different legislature and get the laws changed. Until then I would advise caution.
     
  12. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    Well, you certainly have got me pegged. You are quite correct, the ATF/FBI/Local Law Enforcement don't always seem to like having "The Truth" displayed where they can all see it. Still, that hasn't stopped me yet from calling BS when I see it.
     
  13. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I am not sure what "Truth" you are referring to. Exactly what BS are you calling out?
     
  14. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    Well Guy,
    for starters, I don't believe that buying several lowers every couple to few months will get any "agent" on their way to your door. Got anything to back up that one?
     
  15. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    In Texas, the ATF agents have been sent to check forms at many dealers looking for such purchases. One guy in the DFW area was found to be the king pin of a drug/gun smuggling operation that ranged from Oklahoma to the border. He is sitting in Federal Custody right now for a laundry list of charges including straw purchases and exporting w/o a license.
    A Houston area officer was found to have purchased two AR's but could not locate them when asked by ATF. He came up with a lame excuse that they had been stolen, but he had not bothered to report the theft. I do not know of the results of that case.

    It is common knowledge that ATF has been perusing the 4473's looking for suspicious purchases and knocking on doors looking for straw purchasers and people funneling arms to Mexico.
     
  16. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    "Registered" with the state? I am glad i live in MS. Regarding the multiple firearms on one yellow form: I bought my CZ75b & my GP100 at the same time and only filled out one yellow form, kinda wanted separate receipts but dude was in a hurry.

    Bill, cut Robo some slack; he is next door to hell down there in TX and may be seeing more scrutiny-type procedures than some of the rest of us.
     
  17. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    Well I believe the ATF is the lamest of govt thugs, I guess they can do different stuff in TX. I only see stuff in AZ, but mostly from what I hear if you don't incriminate yourself it can be much simpler to extract your butt from their hold.
     
  18. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    ATF is federal, they can do that across the entire US. No state law can stop them or preempt them either.
     
  19. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    I know the local Sheriff can toss them out of his jurisdiction