How long can direct impingement run?

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by CJx, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. CJx

    CJx New Member

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    How many rounds can a direct impingement system on an AR-15 fire before the gun starts to mal function in any way, typically?
     
  2. austin92

    austin92 New Member

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    I've never personally ran a test but I heard here on this forum that the military recently ran over 10,000 rounds through an m4 with no cleaning what so ever and no malfunctions. Finally had a failure to feed
     

  3. sandog

    sandog Member

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    In the lucky gunner lab/steel ammo test, 4 identical Bushmaster MOE carbines were each fired with 10,000 rounds of ammo. The carbine fired with Federal American Eagle fired all 10,000 without a single malfunction. The Bushmasters got the BCG wiped down with a paper towel at 2,500 and 7,500 rounds, with a detailed cleaning at 5,000 rounds. The other 3 carbines fired with Wolf, Brown Bear and Tula steel case ammo didn't do near as well, with quite a few failures and cases stuck in the chamber.
     
  4. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Google BCM filthy 14. A training company ran the gun in classes and didn't do any full cleaning, but only added lube. They documented the process, and any failures pretty well. But it was still going at over 40,000 rounds.
     
  5. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    There are some videos of colt doing a torture test on a full auto m4 running mags as fast as the could change them. Somewhere around magazine 35 the gas tube pops and the gun continues to run in single shot mode. Ak47 catch fire after a dozen or so mags.

    Bushmaster typically doesn't use chromed bores chambers on the low end guns which is what was in that test. Those are closer to things like ruger american rifles. They look like ar15 but really aren't.

    The bcm carbine filthy 14 primarily ran steel cased stuff with no issues.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2013
  6. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    You're typically going to run out of ammunition long before you have issues with a properly lubricated (with a high temperature bearing grease) quality AR-15 and quality magazines.

    Colt, BCM, DD and others all make guns that will reliably feed and cycle steel cased ammo. The polymer coating on Wolf cases can be problematic if you stop firing and leave a cartridge in the chamber, as the polymer will inevitably melt and glue the casing into the chamber. Apart from that, the zinc and brass plated casings (Silver Bear and Golden Bear, respectively) won't have that problem.

    I've shot a variety of American ammo in communist guns (Arsenal, NORINCO, and PolyTech) and communist ammo in a Colt AR-15 with no ill effects. YMMV.
     
  7. nchunt101

    nchunt101 New Member

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    They will run as long as they do on COD. All the gun needs is Lube
     
  8. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    IMO, there isn't any definate number due to different variables. ammo being one of the most important. different powders burn either cleaner or dirtier than others.

    but it begs the question, why would a person want to? what is wrong with proper cleaning and maintenance? just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
     
  9. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    The more relevant question is how much ammo do you have? Do you have access to enough that this sort of issue could come into play?
     
  10. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    I don't think any of us here can afford enough ammo to choke up any rifle that is properly built.
     
  11. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    at the current prices of 223 ammo in my area, 10,000 rounds divided by 20 round boxes is 500 boxes at $13.00 a box equals $6500. too rich for my blood to see how long it takes to malfuction.
     
  12. fsted2a

    fsted2a Active Member

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    I highlighted the key words in that sentence. There are companies like Colt, BCM, and DD that will build a masterpeice in every rifle, and there are those that will crank out the guns as fast as they can. I believe the biggest factor is properly installing and assembling the gas system. Starting with making sure the gas block is perfectly centered, to making sure the barrel nut is also perfectly centered, to proper staking of the gas key. If you take the bolt out, and just slide the carrier straight up into the receiver, it should be really difficult to tell when the gas tube contacts the key. All of this will mean the difference whether you spend time on the range shooting or 'effing with your AR.
     
  13. dwmiller

    dwmiller Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Saw a utube video where they ran an m4 on rapid fire mode changing mags fast as possible. MOE handguards caught on fire, rifle was dropped into a puddle to quench handguards. Another mag and rifle will still fire! Enough said on reliability. ;)

    Unless it's being belt fed you probably can't kill it as long as the ammo is any good. Ammo for above video is steel cased Russian! Rifle was Spikes Tactical carbine. Lesson here, Spikes builds good s$%&*t! :D

    I do agree wholeheartedly with the statement above. Why not clean it? You spent a bunch of money on the gun, why not keep it clean? Why f$%&&*k it up?

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S6cwh4IxXSc&desktop_uri=/watch?v=S6cwh4IxXSc
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
  14. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    just because you can run 10K or 40K of ammo through your AR without cleaning it, why would someone want to.

    and i agree, the better an AR is built using quality products will more than likely go longer before it needed attention from not being cleaned and oiled.

    even if you dropped the number down to say 5K rounds before it became an issue from not cleaning, that is probably more than most will shoot in a year anyways.
     
  15. fsted2a

    fsted2a Active Member

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    You should be able to spend a day at the range without stopping in the middle to correct malfunctions on a new rifle if you give it some lube in the beginning, regardless of how much ammo you are running through it. I have bumpfired over 1000 rounds in a single day (compare to troops engaged in a prolonged firefight with a lot of rounds on full auto), and no malfunctions with steel ammo. And I see the guy next to me firing a couple of mags with high dollar ammo and having to perform remedial action. Medium priced parts installed correctly can make an AR perform like a champ, and parts just slapped together can cause the owner to spend the day cursing Gene Stoner's entire bloodline.
     
  16. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    It will run until it quits :D . Last year we ran over 8000+ rounds thru one " the Red Headed step child rifle" one of my personal rifles . PSA factory built . Never cleaned , only lubed every outting . Now keep in mind this was over the winter, spring and summer . We ran all kinds of .223/ 5.56 ammo that was available. Friends were invited to come shoot it as long as they brought ammo . Thats how we did this without having a stupid overhead cost . Zero failures , I would say probably 5000+ of these rounds were steel cased russian ammo . Most of the average folks will run out of ammo long before it quits .
    The Lucky gunner thing I wasnt impressed with . They used BM rifles , non chrome lined chamber or barrels . They had large amount of throat erosion with the Bimetal bullets because of not being chrome lined . Call it what you will, but when you start with something that wasnt made for heavy use or the use of Bimetal bullets what do you expect ?