How does the F.F.L. buyer and seller work?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by RadioActiV, May 11, 2010.

  1. RadioActiV

    RadioActiV New Member

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    My question is if you purchase or sell a firearm who has to have a F.F.L.? Both you and the buyer? Or just the buyer? Also how do you mail it? Do you have to have a F.F.L. mail the firearm for you, or do you just mail it yourself to the buyers F.F.L.? PLease any input would much be appreciated
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    FFL= Federal firearms License. Most commonly, an 01FFL (Dealer) or 03 FFL (Collector). When the ownership of a firearm is transferred ACROSS A STATE LINE, the firearm must be RECEIVED by a FFL holder. The FFL can then transfer the firearm to a resident of that state. Example- neither you nor I have a FFL. You want to buy the M1 Carbine I own. I'm in VA, you're in... well wherever you are that is not Virginia. We agree on a price, you send me money. You have a dealer send me a copy of his license, or at least gives me his name, address, and license number (which I can verify on the ATF website) I mail the carbine to HIM. When he gets it, he calls you- you go to his shop, do the same paperwork as if you were buying the gun from him. You pay him for his time, take your carbine, go home.

    Now there are exceptions for inheritance, etc, but this covers 99% of the time. You do not have to have a FFL to ship, only to receive. Transfer WITHIN a state, no FFL required. Yes, you can MAIL a rifle or shotgun. Only a DEALER or MANUFACTURER can MAIL a handgun (not even a collector can mail a handgun- we got left out of the wording of the regulation) NON DEALERS can only ship a handgun by common carrier, such as UPS or FedEx- and THEY require Next Day Air. That is so expensive, may be cheaper to pay a dealer to mail it for you.

    Help any?
     

  3. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    There is a sticky somewhere that covers this. I am having trouble finding it.

    Most states allow face to face sales instate. No FFL required on either side. Buying from a dealer requires FFL on the part of the dealer. Shipping guns is where it gets a bit sticky. Normally, the firearm needs to be shipped to an FFL holder and then the transaction can happen from there, along with the background check. Most FFL holders charge a transfer fee.

    What you lookin to do?
     
  4. RadioActiV

    RadioActiV New Member

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    That's great info!:D Thank you!
     
  5. RadioActiV

    RadioActiV New Member

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    I have an Intratec TEC-DC9 that I'm wanting to sell. I was just gathering all the info I need in case it sells online instead of in state.
     
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    If selling in an on-line auction, suggest you include wording to the effect of "I am not a FFL, be certain that your recieving FFL will accept from a non-FFL, with a copy of my driver's license." While not against the law, SOME FFLS balk at receiving from anyone not a FFL. The recieving FL DOES need some ID from you, so that he has info to enter the gun into HIS received records (FFLS have to maintain a "bound volume" of "acquistions and dispostions")
     
  7. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    This is sticky worthy.

    Thanks C3 et. all.
     
  8. sigp250

    sigp250 New Member

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    Good explanation except a clarification for you. As you know, you can use USPS to ship a rifle or shotgun. Handguns can be shipped by 01-FFL's via USPS as you mentioned. Handguns may ship by two day air don't let UPS or FedEx tell you otherwise. With shipping discounts UPS and FedEx can be competitive with USPS Priority mail.

    For the OP, several states are now allowing purchase of long guns from contiguous states. Goggle for your state firearms statues. You will need to be 21 to purchase a handgun and 18 for a long gun.
     
  9. Blueguns

    Blueguns New Member

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    EDIT: Blue, that is spam. They are from China. Don't quote them. Some of it may rub off on you, and it smells really bad.


    Really? C'mon advertising escort services on a gun forum?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2012
  10. sar82007

    sar82007 New Member

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    Non FFL to FFL Shotgun Transfer

    "If selling in an on-line auction, suggest you include wording to the effect of "I am not a FFL, be certain that your recieving FFL will accept from a non-FFL, with a copy of my driver's license." While not against the law, SOME FFLS balk at receiving from anyone not a FFL. The recieving FL DOES need some ID from you, so that he has info to enter the gun into HIS received records (FFLS have to maintain a "bound volume" of "acquistions and dispostions")"

    So there is no law against receiving guns from non-FFL I don't know why my FFL doesn't accept firearms from non-FFLs. They said, "that they were going to have to turn it into the ATF." "And they said getting my money back wasn't their problem." Is sending a non-FFL gun back to the ATF true or are they just saying that to steal my gun. But the FFL down the street will accept a firearm from a non-FFL. What is really happening is this a shake down by my FFL? Or do they really send it to the ATF?
     
  11. MzgrnMnM

    MzgrnMnM New Member

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    What if you are shipping a safe full of guns, can it still be shipped in 2days??
     
  12. TheGunDude

    TheGunDude New Member

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    USPS Instructions Regarding Mailability

    I try to never trust anyone's word when it comes to these things as it can end you up in a federal criminal case very quickly if you do it wrong and get caught. So I offer some links below where you can read up in the governing instructions. Also be sure to check applicable State and Local laws which can most often be found by calling the state police.

    I know it's a lot of work, but the potential for liability is high.

    Here is the USPS instruction on mailing firearms.

    Here is the UPS instruction on mailing firearms.

    Here is the FEDEX instruction on mailing firearms.

    Here is a useful link to the ATF's FAQ page regarding mailing and transfer of firearms.

    In my experience and understanding C3Shooter is right, only FFL can ship handguns through USPS...and it is FAR cheaper than shipping handguns through UPS or FEDEX. I charge a flat rate of $35 to ship a handgun via USPS. It costs me about $13-15 depending on where it is going. Insurance can drive that cost up as well.

    When it comes to long guns a private citizen is allowed to ship them ONLY TO AN FFL or themselves. They are allowed to go by ground and the least expensive I have found is UPS.

    You are never allowed to ship a firearm to a non-FFL...ever.<----Please speak up if I am wrong on this point, but I am pretty confidant I am spot on.
     
  13. TheGunDude

    TheGunDude New Member

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    This thread resulted in a Blog!

    Evening everyone.

    I see this question so often I thought I might write a blog on the topic in an effort to save some typing.

    Please feel free to take a gander if you like:

    The Gun Dude Blog - Firearms Transfers & Shipping

    I included all the references I have and tried to make it as clear as I possibly could. Feel free to comment if you have input.

    Hope it helps.
     
  14. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Dude- very good post (and blog). There IS one exception in the Federal statutes on a non-FFL transferring a firearm across a state line- and it is used rarely. That is inheritance.

    It is lawful to transfer an inherited firearm that has been left to someone, as long as it is not unlawful for the recipient to possess that gun in their home state. This is at the start of 18 USC 922, and gets missed frequently.


    18 US Code Section 922.

    It shall be unlawful.....

    5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm
    by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence


    Translation- My father dies without a will. I am his only heir. I live in a different state. I can go pick up my dad's shotgun.

    My Dad dies. His will leaves me his shotgun. The executor of the estate can ship it directly to me, without sending it to a FFL.
     
  15. TheGunDude

    TheGunDude New Member

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    Great addition. I will append my blog at my earliest opportunity. Thank you C3Shooter.
     
  16. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    An additional note:
    If you are want to sell within your state, but face-to-face is not possible, the firearm (if shipped) should go through an FFL.

    If someone in Pensacola buys a gun on line from someone in Miami, and wants it shipped, it should go through an FFL.

    Going through an FFL may not be required, but should be considered if there are questions on legality of transfer or if there is a need for a trusted agent in the transaction.
     
  17. TheGunDude

    TheGunDude New Member

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    Disregard.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  18. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    I am pathetically passive.
     
  19. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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