How About A Rattlesnake Defense Strategy?

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by AR10, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. AR10

    AR10 New Member

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    How About A Rattlesnake Defense Strategy?

    For concealed carry, how about keeping a very hot blank round as your one in the pipe ammo?

    Pros:

    1: Makes Glock Leg (1911, any handgun) much less a threat to life and limb should the unfortunate event of a Negligent Discharge occur.

    2: A warning shot, may very well stop the threat. One real round hitting an attacker, will only make the bad guy more angry that he got shot, and continue the attack. A blank (miss) may turn him around, thinking this guy is shooting at me, and I want to get away unhurt.

    3: If the attack is too close and eminent for a warning shot, a blank round to the face will stop an attacker just as well as a bullet, and is just as likely to kill them as a real traditional bullet.

    4: In court, after the attack, a warning blank, would be a good thing, showing deadly force was not your intent, you only wished to stop the attack.

    Cons:

    (you fill this part in)

    (to let you know I am serous, I just ordered blanks http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/34618 )

    [​IMG]

    "Used by military re-enactors, in ceremonies, for training exercises, in theatrical productions and hunting dog training, blank ammunition provides the report and realism of conventional ammunition without the projectile. "
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  2. deadsp0t

    deadsp0t New Member

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    All good points and valid, but I see this heading down the path of ifs and buts.. So I'll start, if you're caught or end up in a real exchange of gun Fire the the most important con will the seemingly wasted space in your mag and the critical 1st shot.. Interesting concept though.
     

  3. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Will those blanks cycle reliably in your carry piece? Would a "warning shot" be considered an "illegal discharge" in your area; you were not "in mortal fear of your attacker".

    Maybe a first round loaded with pellets, but not a total blank...
     
  4. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    If I have to pull out my firearm to stop a threat, then I want keep a promise that the firearm is loaded and not make a "blank" threat on my part
     
  5. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    Maybe this is a grey area of the law?

    Since it's a blank, nothing is actually being discharged...('cept for some hot gas)...I dunno...:confused:

    Can definitely see the advantages in a trial that you mentioned, as we have seen several times in SD cases when JHP's are used, they are usually picked at by an overly enthusiastic DA, saying since the gun was loaded with them, you INTENDED to cause grave injury...and other such asshattery...

    Interesting idea nonetheless...

    I'm just gonna stick with what I have now...:cool:
     
  6. g23shooter

    g23shooter New Member

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    This sounds like a really bad Idea that could have terrible consequences for the one that carries the blanks. If you are unable to justify using deadly force in defense of yourself or a loved one, don't carry.
     
  7. The1Monster

    The1Monster New Member

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    The only good point I see, but this can't be used as an excuse to become complacent with firearm safety. And if a person can't trust themselves with live ammo....
    Just makes no sense to me that a loud bang would deter someone, and a searing hot slug of metal slamming into someone's chest would infuriate them into further violence.

    The idea of planning for this outcome smacks of cruel intentions. No need to help prosecutors.


    It's generally held, and required by law in many stand your ground states that you have to fear for your life to use a firearm in self defense. Using less than lethal force doesn't sound to me like a defender is truly in fear for their life and limbs. A good prosecutor would probably take that sentiment and run it all the way to ground.
    Cons: interspersed. Just don't seem like a great idea to me.

     
  8. HighSpeed

    HighSpeed New Member

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    Cycling would be my main concern.
     
  9. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    Cons:
    Warning shot = bad idea. You risk any number of legal pitfalls. If you're justified in pulling the trigger at all, you're justified in using real ammo. Otherwise leave it in the holster.
    I doubt blank ammo will cycle a normal semi-auto without modifications. But you're right, it will eliminate Glock leg.
    Anti gun prosecutor asks "If one blank was a good idea, wouldn't more blanks be an even better idea? Why'd ya have to shoot mommy's little angel with real ammo?"
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2013
  10. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    I wouldnt feel comfortable with a blank, as Orange said, some semi's wont like that blank without an adapter and with an adapter, the second live round would be a bummer for you. Rock salt used to be the warning shot of choice at near range (right in the ass is a great deterrent) but its not great for weapons, works great in an old beater shotgun. Not sure how that would work in a pistol, its not lethal in most cases but it hurts like a Sonomabitch. Explain that to the ER technician, "I got rock salt in my butt,", next call is the PD.
     
  11. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    If you could defeat the cycling problem, "rat shot" would seem reasonable for the extra squeamish. The chambered shell in my bedside Mossy500 is just a birdshot/sport load; if I awaken to a bear, i'll just cycle that puppy on out. ;)
     
  12. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    a handgun is a DEADLY weapon, only to be used against deadly force or immenate serious bodily injury...............its not supposed to be fired at anyone(with ANY type ammo) unless they deserve killing.
    deadly force should be met with deadly force............no warning shot........no blanks.........no snake shot.
     
  13. SSGSF

    SSGSF New Member

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    That has to be the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. To have your first round a blank, why don't you just carry and empty chamber and then when you are in immediate danger you can rack the slide back and chamber a round.
     
  14. mahall

    mahall New Member

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    If in theory a loud noise would work, just yell real loud!! Why exposé yourself with a useless shot!! Makes no sense to me!! Some people are not wired to carry firearms!! Just because the law says we can, doesn't mean we are all wired to carry! And people that entertain the thought of using a blank in a chamber tells me they really aren't ready or "All In" in the event that they might have to take a life to save a life!! These facts hold true with an empty chamber carry as well in my opinion!!
     
  15. AR10

    AR10 New Member

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    So, am I to guess, you do not like the idea? Don't beat around the bush, tell us what you really think!
     
  16. AR10

    AR10 New Member

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    Empty chamber carry is a bad idea, in your opinion. Tell me, are you a firearms safety trainer? Are you a LEO ? Or just a guy with opinions?

    As a firearms instructor, my job is to keep my students safe. Out of harms way. That is for external threats, and internal ones as well.

    This thread was placed here to brainstorm with gun owners, about one possibility of concealed carry I had never heard talked about anywhere.

    Seatbelts were once ridiculed, in some circles, they still are.

    Glock owners manual forbids clambering a round for concealed carry by retail purchasers of their product. Stern warning about doing so. Beretta also, likely other gun manufacturers as well.

    Not saying a blank should be tossed in the air like a tap on the horn. Anytime a gun is pulled, that is pretty serious. Only thing more serious, would be a way to spare life and limb if at all possible.

    I have concealed carried over thirty years. I have owned hundreds of firearms. Was an ffl dealer many years. I was shooting guns before I was ridding a bicycle. I am an NRA Endowment Life member, my wife also. Life GOA as well.

    One thing I have never done is shoot someone. Hope I never do.

    I think we as a group (gun owners) have seen way to many Rambo movies. Black hawk down, white house down, die hard, heat, Bonnie and Clyde. Lets not forget Duke, good ole John Wayne.

    Life is not Hollywood.
     
  17. The1Monster

    The1Monster New Member

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    So pretty much everyone thinks this is a bad idea, so you defend your idle thought with your credentials while pointing out the lack thereof among your peers?

    Are we to believe that we should kowtow to your opinion because of your exemplary firearms ownership record? Tell me, as a firearms instructor, and with so much experience behind you, you should be very knowledgeable of the laws regarding discharging firearms in public and such, correct? Around my parts, you'd likely swing for popping off with a blank, at the very least with a DTP charge, I'm sure.

    This doesn't sound so much like a brainstorming session, as it does a call to come to an accord on an opinion. An opinion, it seems, no one wants to come to accord with, but you must be right anyway. Right?
     
  18. deadsp0t

    deadsp0t New Member

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    Agreed, some act as though they are truly hoping to have a legal opportunity to kill another human being, chances are these ppl have no idea how it feels physically and emotionally to shoot at, shoot, shoot and wound or kill, be shot at or shot.. These are the type that may not need to carry guns, not the ones who look for ways besides killing for PD/SD/HD.
    History is full of dead bad asses and jailed bad asses..
     
  19. Doc3402

    Doc3402 New Member

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    I see no practical reason to do this. If your firearm ends up in your hand there better a very real potential for the use of deadly force. If the potential develops into a reality I don't want to waste time or capacity on a round that won't do the job of protecting myself or my loved ones.

    You do present a logical argument for your idea, and something similar has been kicked around for years concerning the sound of cocking a pump shotgun. It makes a lot of sense, and I can see where it could make a difference. I just don't see a blank round as a solution for me. When the law says "imminent" danger of death or great bodily harm I see it as I need to do everything possible to end the fight right this second or I'm going to die. With that in mind I lean towards defending myself with something I know should work over something that may or may not work.

    As far as the blank being considered a warning shot is concerned I don't see it as being a problem, but that's just my opinion. No projectile is expelled. so unless you start a brush fire with it there is no danger to the public. Two things. Your local laws may not agree with my opinion. You also better be able to prove that your shot was a blank.
     
  20. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    Nobody with a healthy brain wants to kill someone even if they are trying to kill them, its not something you can just "forgetaboutit" after the fact. The police carry tazers and plastic bullets to deal with non lethal offenders because they can, we on the other hand dont carry options, wear a flack vest or have the other backup a police officer has. While I can see where AR10 is coming from, I still have to disagree with the idea that something that makes you fear for life and limb deserves a warning. Criminals dont have a conscience, they only care about getting away with their crime, your warning shot wont be returned with blank fire by them if they have a gun, your getting lead in return.

    Its also worthy of restating the fact that many weapons will not cycle without sufficient blowback from the compression created by the projectile as it travels down the barrel. Larger loads in the blank my negate that but you better test that before you have to try it in reality. Ive fired a 10,000 blanks if Ive fired one, mostly in m16's; they are inherently unreliable even with a good blank adapter; great for training but I would not stake my life on them ever.

    In an SD scenario where imminent danger is unquestionable (it should be if your drawing your weapon), repelling the offender immediately and effectively is most important. You could aim for a non kill shot (better be really good), or toss non lethal yet impactful fodder that causes agony but not death (Rocksalt, darts), but throwing air at them seems to be more risky than "Im afraid for my life" demands.

    Carrying is a right and a responsibility, I dont carry but if I did, I would have to accept the reality of what Im doing and the onerous responsibility of using it appropriately. After-all, as Lynard Skynard sang back in the day, "Handguns are made for killing, they aint no good for nothin else"...