hornady critical duty .45 bullet set back

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by ThinkFastHolsters, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. ThinkFastHolsters

    ThinkFastHolsters New Member

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    Ok, so I am having an issue with my Hornady CD .45 ammo. Now before you go lecturing about the "never rechamber more than once" rule, know that I am not a new shooter, I have known of this rule for some time and while I still rechamber rounds, I keep an eye on the bullet seating. That being said, I am having some issues with my .45 ammo in my Sig 1911. I have 1 round that I originally noticed the issue with and then 1 round that I itentionally rechambered to recreate the problem. After just 3 or 4 rechamberings the bullet has been seated sigfificantly further into the casing than factory seating. I run Horandy CD and TAP as my SD ammo in all my 9mm handguns and I regularly rechamber those and have had no issue at all. I even rechambered the same 9mm round in my G19 last night at least 20 times and had no noticeable difference in bullet seating. It just seems to be an issue with the .45 critical duty. I dont have any pictures right now but I will take one tonight and post to show the difference. My understanding is that since .45 is a relatively low pressure round, some set back would not greatly affect the functionality of the round but I am still wary of firing these rounds that have been affected. Im not a reloader and I dont know much about crimping and all that. Is Hornady known for lose crimping? Could it be my gun? Is there another brand of good SD ammo that has exceptionally tight crimping? I need some help here so I dont blow my damn hand off.
     
  2. SRK97

    SRK97 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sorry to be the revolver guy here but what is rechambering?
     

  3. ThinkFastHolsters

    ThinkFastHolsters New Member

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    loading a round into the chamber, ejecting said round, then reloading that same round into the chamber in a semi auto
     
  4. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    Do you have a set of calipers to measure the amount of setback?

    Crimping the case mouth in a 45 ACP is not to secure the bullet, it is there to remove the case mouth flare applied to ease in bullet seating.

    Are there and marks or dings in the bullet or the case after chambering?
     
  5. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    Do not attempt to fire ammo that has visible setback. The problem with setback is that it doesn't take much to generate ridiculous pressures. Especially when you consider that this is SD ammo we are talking about. It will very likely be at or near max pressure at normal OAL, add setback and you have a recipe for problems.
    If you know any reloaders, the ammo can be fixed with careful use of a bullet puller and press, restoring it to the same length as a pristine unused round. For practice use anyway.
    I have no experience with Hornady SD ammo. I use Winchester Ranger T 230 gr in my DW CCO. It has proven tolerant i.e. no setback issues.

    Crimping as such, isn't the fix. Semi auto ammo typically has a taper crimp which isn't intended to add much to the equation aside for removing the mouth bell created as part of the seating process. In many cases, sd ammo will have a canrelure on the case right at the base of the bullet as a preventive measure. I'm not familiar with any home reloading gear for canneluring reloads. There might be gear, I've just never searched for any.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  6. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Set back in a .45 doesn't need measuring. If you see it, chuck it. If you can't see it, you wouldn't know there was an issue to warrant measuring.

    I have noticed that set back does seem to be a bit more prevalent with .45 ACP.

    I never rechamber the same round frequently. When I clean without shooting, I unload the mag and put that previously chambered round at the bottom. Next time around, I repeat. If I've gotten to the point where a full mag has been rechambered more than once, I ain't hitting the range NEARLY enough. For perspective, I do regular cleaning without shooting every two weeks or so. I clean immediately after shooting, or as soon as I can.

    A 7 round mag, 2 weeks cleaning interval... if I've rotated every round to the bottom of the mag at least once, that means I haven't been to the range in 14 weeks at least. That ain't happening, and hasn't happened yet.
     
  7. ThinkFastHolsters

    ThinkFastHolsters New Member

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    thanks for the responses so far guys. I think a call to Hornady may be in store because after posting this initial thread I went to their website and saw this about the critical duty ammo

    2) CANNELURED BULLET WITH CRIMPED CASE ensures no bullet setback during feeding.

    So the fact that I am getting bullet set back after only 3 or 4 rechamberings SHOULD be covered under their warranty as manufacture defect. We shall see. Those two rounds are going to be pulled once I get home.
     
  8. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    They probably intended that to be only ONE chambering (yes, I've seen set back with only one chambering).

    Still, it's worth a call, go for it.
     
  9. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Some chamber designs are more forgiving than others. The shallower the angle of the bullet to the chamber the less effect it will have on bullet setback.

    1911 have a pretty steep bullet to chamber angle as the ogive will hit the top of the chamber then tilt down and go in. Thats why proper throating is so important on them and setback is such a huge issue.

    A lot of 9mm especially the berretta 92fs/m9 have a super shallow bullet to chamber angle and setback pretty much doesnt happen with these guns and guns like them where the bullet is inline with the chamber.

    Its not a fault of the ammo but a problem with the 1911 design.

    Do not fire those rounds they arent safe to shoot.

    It doesnt matter if a 45acp has a cannelure or not it serves no purpose at all since the 45acp headspaces off the case mouth. The crimp step of loading is a taper crimp and serves only to remove the bell from the case mouth at bullet seating. If it was roll crimped and used the cannelure you would have headspace issues and possible hangfires and nofires.

    Cannelures exist to give space for a roll crimp and serve no purpose in a cartridge that headspaces off the case mouth other than a visual way to tell if a bullet is seated in the case correctly.
     
  10. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    How much does it take?

    According to this test, A Lot.

    https://plus.google.com/+luckygunner/posts/CiVxdHvWjYS
     
  11. bntyhntr6975

    bntyhntr6975 New Member

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    The only set-back in .45 that Ive noticed were Fed Hydra-Shoks (they also set-back in .40), havent tried the Hornady CD. I just pulled them back out to proper length and ran them thru the Lee factory crimp die. Now, they dont set-back at all while chambering. I also have some Barnes Tac XPDs on hand but havent tried them yet. Pressures can drastically increase as the bullet gets deeper in the case, so this is a dangerous situation. Do not shoot any with visible set-back. You may get away with it a few times, but its not worth the risk. The .45 acp is a low pressure cartridge to begin with, but when dealing with elevated pressures, and since not all guns are the same, its best to err on the side of caution. I have fired off a few that were set back way farther than any manual would advise, and all was fine. But, Im not going to say it was the safe thing to do.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  12. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    That link is useless to me. As is, it's not accepting traffic. Cached, it's filtered by the network nanny at work.

    This it?
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/05/battered-bullets-does-bullet-setback-matter/

    If so, so what? Because that particular gun didn't get damaged does not make it a good idea. You can bet that those damaged rounds were well over pressure. The method used in this article didn't include pressure readings. I suspect pressure readings would be impressive. We really have no more info than the fact that this guy's Glock didn't kaboom. Good for him, he gets to keep his fingers another day. Because some guy got away with it should not be considered an endorsement.
    I stand by my statement.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  13. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    Yup, that's it.

    How much over pressure were they?

    Anyone ever publish pressure tested data with varying degrees on set-back?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  14. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    There's not a lot of actual data out there. I did find this:
    http://greent.com/40Page/ammo/40/180gr.htm

    While not particularly useful in a .45 acp specific discussion, it's still interesting. The pressure limbs rapidly in a .40 once you get below a certain length. When you see some of those numbers, it's all the more impressive that the previously discussed guy's Glock held together.
    I use a lot of 180 gr bullets and my .40 carry ammo is 180 gr, those numbers certainly make me think.
     
  15. JW357

    JW357 New Member

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    Yes, Hornady advertises that. I believe them, to an extent. As (I believe it was) JonM stated, it depends on the angle of the round feeding into the bbl. I believe it also depends on caliber. For example, my current defensive load is Hornady Critical Duty, 9mm. I haven't noticed an issue with bullet setback. Of course, since I don't yet have my CCW permit here, I don't chamber a round regularly. Have only done it a few times with this batch of ammo.
     
  16. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    when a bullet gets setback into the case it means its loose, very loose. chambering such a bullet can throwthe bullet out of the case and into the lands and grooves. if it goes in a little cock-eyed it may or may not seal the chamber or not seal the cartridge enough to fully ignite or even ignite the powder at all.

    with shorter lighter bullets like 185 or smaller in some cases witht he 45acp if the bullet goes forward into the rifling the powder folows and there may not be enough spark to ignite but enough pressure to push the bullet a bit farther into the barrel.

    IF this occurs and you DONT notice it and go to chamber a new round because treyvan junior is pounding your skull in the pavement to get more skittles after his govt cheese ran out and all of a sudden you got a plugged barrel with a live round following it and guess what happens next.... is it worth it to save 50 cents or so on a SD bullet or better to just toss it and get a new box??

    your call.
     
  17. ThinkFastHolsters

    ThinkFastHolsters New Member

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    Here is a picture of the rounds in question. The left is an unaffected round, the center is the round that I noticed the issue with, and the right is the round I intentionally chambered and re chambered. Didn't get a chance to call Hornady today and upon further investigation I found that its actually critical defense and not critical duty. On the hornady website, critical duty is advertised as a round for use in full sized handguns and the critical defense is optimized for use in smaller carry guns to reduce muzzle flip and felt recoil. Does this mean that critical duty is loaded lighter? Either way I wont be firing the affected rounds.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013