Home defense thoughts

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by Green Lantern, Jan 25, 2020.

  1. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Or a little common sense from the mother, identify what / who she was shooting at. Luckily children here are still able to surprise their family without fear of being shot or attacked.
     
  2. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

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    Of course even your royalty doesn't want to live there but hey...

    I bet it happens about as often over there on the Eastern edge of the Islamic Empire as it does here just not with guns.
     
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  3. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You betting it means nothing to anyone. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  4. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    But if hes right, and from what I can look up he is, that does mean something.
     
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  5. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    The mother acted correctly.
    Someone skulking around in the dark inside ones home screams home invasion.
    The fault rests on the daughter. All she had to do if she didnt want to call ahead is announce who she was before entering the dwelling. Or knocking. That simple. And anybody with any common horse sense would do that. It s still a surprise.

    Play stupid games, sometimes will get you shot.
    The daughter is at fault here.
     
  6. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes bets mean nothing examples do, i would be happy to comment on the examples when i see them.
     
    JRDallas likes this.
  7. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Shooting someone and asking questions later is good practice in self defense OK. A child for example surprises their parent bursts into the bedroom, shoot them and then check who they are after. You have to question what it has come to when planing a pleasant surprise for your family can get you shot, and when people defend it as a normal reaction.

    Maybe like bellow examples shoot first ask questions latter.

     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
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  8. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously if a person has known other people living in the house as in your example, little kids jumping into the parents bedroom, the parameters are somewhat different. The kids are known to be in the house. And need to be accounted for. That having to account for their whereabouts puts the home defender at a disadvantage but it is what it is.

    But. For someone who lives alone, or just wife and husband , an intruder who has gained entry , with no knocking, no announcement, and does not reside there, sneaking around , that person isnt there to drop off Christmas goodies.

    And simply because it's someone known to you doesn't change the fact they entered your dwelling without your knowledge or consent and probably are a threat to you and yours.

    Bottom line is with a serious armed intruder or intruders all this id with lights etc WILL get you killed. And likrly leave the rest of your family defenseless.
     
    manta likes this.
  9. oO_Rogue_Oo

    oO_Rogue_Oo Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more; I know my home better than the intruders; darkness is my friend and to my advantage. That said some here must live in pitch black homes (or underground caverns) to need a light. The ambient light level in my home is such that I don't need to turn on light to navigate my way to the bathroom in the middle of the night.

    Proper gun safety WOULD (no might about it) have prevented that woman from shooting her daughter. Since when is it okay to shoot an unidentified target? What that woman did was nothing short of murder. And NO, I do not believe the daughter bears any fault. The mother shot an unarmed, unidentified and non-threatening person simply because she was caught off guard and surprised.

    There are a lot of things in life where you get to make mistakes and learn from them; discharging a firearm is NOT one of them.
     
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  10. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    When that person does not reside in the home and makes covert entry into the home. Obviously in the mothers case she was not charged with anything, the daughter was not " murdered".
    She was hit in the arm.
     
  11. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

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    I know my home better than the intruders

    I have no doubt that you do. You're still liable to walk right into an ambush. Unless there's an overwhelming necessity such as kids in another part of the house you're better off holing up in your safe room and waiting for the cops.

    For those of you who think you're going to go out and clear your home have one of your friends hide in your house with an Airsoft gun and you go try to find them. Let us know how it works out for you.

    And remember if there is an exchange of gunfire your family is in the line of fire as well.
     
  12. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Many of us have cleared buildings, homes etc. Both alone and with others.

    While in the city waiting on cops might be an option, in the rural areas it isnt.
    25 30 minute response times are the rule. Too much can happen in that length of time .

    I wouldn't ever tell anyone else to clear their home.
    Myself , if there is a bump in the night , I go hunting. The best defense when one is on their own, is getting out of a defensive mode into a effective offensive mode.
     
  13. oO_Rogue_Oo

    oO_Rogue_Oo Well-Known Member

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    Actually VERY good advice. I have done house clearing exercises and am all too well aware of it's risks and would agree that in 99% of cases it is much safer to choose a safe spot, call 911 and wait; and I very well may do that depending on situation. That said my house and it's furniture is laid out in such a way that should I need to press my location I have two spots that provide cover (not concealment, cover) and give a good field of view into the rest of the house. All bedrooms are behind me in both cases (the master is the first room accessed from a long hallway); and risk is minimal. Concealment in the rest of the house is pretty minimal and only one spot that provides cover (in the kitchen; back entrance). Brick house so as long as I'm not using any crazy ammo, little chance of over penetration and the angles from where I would be shooting (should I actually be forced into a fire fight) are favorable. I realize this is not the case for many and like you would not advise attempting to clear the house if ANY other option existed (especially as a one man team).

    I would venture to say where I am response times are similar to what yours are. I would still be very careful about deciding to press my position if I had other options.

    It has been a while and I didn't remember the details of the case correctly but I stand by my assessment; the mother shot at an unidentified target. The fact that the daughter was not killed seems to be a matter of luck, not skill. The question still stands; since when is it okay to shot at an unidentified target?
     
  14. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Whether a person goes to deal with a. Intruder or hole up is an individual choice.
    Doing so is dangerous, but waiting can also be just as dangerous.

    As to when it's ok to shoot a person without identifying them my answer still stands.
    When a person enters a occupied dwelling, covertly or forcefully. uninvited, and not loudly identifying themselves, it is entirely reasonable to believe that person is a threat.

    And it's entirely reasonable to treat that person as a threat deserving of lethal force.
    Now . States vary on their laws.
    Mine for instance deems a person unlawfully entering or attempting to enter an occupied dwelling or vehicle as a lethal threat by that act alone.
    There is no requirement to identify the person, determine if they are armed or not or their intent and no duty to retreat.

    In other words they paid for themselves by the act of unlawful entry.

    Other states are a bit different but as a rule , when someone enters your home unlawfully they are deemed a threat by most states .
     
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  15. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

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    Why yes, yes we have. Some of us have even done it in body armor with back up and it's still not something that should be done if there are any other options.

    Why not? If you're in a defensible position and your family is safe why wouldn't you wait for the cavalry? In that case time is on your side not the potential bad guy's.

    And if it does wouldn't you rather be in a defensive position behind cover than in the middle of your living room?

    I hope you have good insurance

    That's a matter of opinion and you're certainly entitled to yours.

    Perhaps you can give us an example of that being the case?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  16. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know Brother. That's why i made sure to clarify that i wasn't calling you out on it.

    One can't describe that situation without using the word "Cluster."

    See the first 8 or so posts on this page, for why. It's ove5r, she survive! Can't we just f***ing drop it people?!
     
  17. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

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    It's NEVER OK to shoot a person without identifying them.
     
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  18. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    There was a time that an open door was a way to tell if you were home. Be it the front door or garage door.

    Too many have taken advantage of those open doors. Even with cameras in obvious positions, some miscreants take things out without the owner's permission.
     
    kfox75 likes this.
  19. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Ok , your opinion , your of course entitled to it. Never covers a lot of territory though.
     
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  20. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Why yes I can. Several in fact but I'll just post one.
    Not every invasion is about stuff. Some the invaders dont want stuff, but blood.

    2 mile up the road four men invaded a single mans house. He did as you advise and holed up in a back room with a shotgun.
    They simply burned his home down while shooting at him when he tried to get out. He died.
    The cops got there 30 minutes after the house was ashes, fire dept got there faster but house was fully involved , the thugs gone.

    I've lost one loved one to a home invasion. Nothing was stolen .
    Ill not lose another. Enter my home unannounced , your hunted . Period. Be outside my home at night prowling around , I'll hunt you down until I find out why your there.

    Everyone need do what they think best.
    I've done building clearing many times, sometimes finding someone sometimes not.

    I have the ability to do so and I will do so.
    But that's just me

    Personally I'd rather clear my home than approach a vehicle during a traffic stop.
     
    Oldoutlaw likes this.