Home Defense shotgun

Discussion in 'General Shotgun Discussion' started by RONSERESURPLUS, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. RONSERESURPLUS

    RONSERESURPLUS New Member

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    Hello all, RON L here


    The Subject of what Firearm is best for Home defense? While I am a Hopeless weapons freak and I do love my carry handguns. That in mind, I do know they are not the best tool for Home Defense! I carry a 1911A1 Clone in 45ACP or a BHP clone in 9MM or a Smaller 2” S&W Model 36 in 38 SPCL, in hot weather months as we are in now. For the Home, though, I have reverted to that "Swiss Army Knife" of Firearms, the 12 GA Shotgun, weather I load, slugs for Deer/Larger game and or Buckshot for 2 Legged Vermin, or #6-7-8 shot for small game and Birds, hard to beat a shotgun for versatility?

    What about home defense? Why not "tailor" our shotgun loads, to reflect the best use round? One that will stop or kill someone at room distances, but will not over penetrate the walls and kill a neighbor or other person in the home? OK, with that in mind, what can we use? Man stoppers know are 00 or # 4 Buckshot and or Slugs (Called Pumpkin balls) by many old times? Hmm, lets see those will do the trick, right? They are proven man stoppers and will kill upon use or stop someone dead into he tracks? What about over penetration? I've seen slugs and or Buckshot Penetrate 1 side of a Car door and almost out the other side? No Good for this application!!!!! I want a selection that will kill or stop at shorter range of inside a home but not go outside after or into multiple rooms? I've decided to try out several different shot and see what works for me! I set up sheet rock at less than 12 FT, the normal size of rooms in many home and produces the effect we are looking for. Setting these up in a wooded area not far from home I set out to do a little TEST? Here are the results:

    #6-7 shot - I shot several used Sections of sheetrock and press board, the performance was encouraging, it was a deal of it did hold a tight pattern at that close range and didn't over penetrate more than a sheet or two.

    #8 shot - Much the same as above same sort of not open pattern but all in one tight group and defiantly would stop or kill someone with out bad over penetration into other Simulated rooms I set up!

    # Turkey Shot - Did the trick, but started to over Penetrate the “walls” I had made, so I set those aside!

    # 4 Buck shot - I had to try it, thinking the size of the pellets might be useable where 00 Buckshot or slugs might over do it, WRONG, all shots I tried punched up to 3-4 sheets of Drywall and press board and would have hurt or killed someone in the next room or home!!!!

    # 00 Buckshot, - OK, I know what # 4 Buckshot did, lets see what 00 Buckshot did? man, Over penetration to the max and some shot I never did shop after up to 5 sheets of Drywall and pressboard! Don’t know how far into the old abandoned house those would have gone had I just fired wildly?

    Slugs- H.P. Or Solid, same deal as Buckshot Both 00 and # 4 Buckshot did over penetrate the sheetrock and pressboard, but the slugs, man, they sailed thought it like the proverbial knife through hot butter, best to leave these rounds for barricaded folks and Vehicles? LOL

    OK, now that we know this stuff, what good it is? I decided to set my Rem 870 up for Home defense Primarily and some tactical and entry work, so for Home defense, I thought I'd have it set and loaded (Just not a shell in the chamber) with #6-7-8 shot and That worked pretty well, I added one of the cheap nylon stock shell holders and added 2 more 6-7-8 shot, then 2 00 Buck, if the the fight was not over and I have to go outside and finish it? That seems like a good compromise, but what if I run out after, I added a bandoleer sling that held another 20 or shells? Too heavy, felt like crap on the shoulder and in use, removed and tossed that! A person owed me some trade goods for items I had sent him and wanted to settle up, on his list was a "Side-Saddle " shell holder this mounts to the side of the 870 with 2 large screws instead of push pins Pins to hold the trigger group in, added that, and all that 6 shots were a mix of 00 Buckshot, #4 Buckshot and a few H.P. Slugs!

    I like to use a light with my shotgun, but it doesn't pay to have a light constantly on all the time on the front of a weapon, just tells them where to shot at in the dark? I added a few different designs, but filly found a simple addition of a 2 AA Mag light with no switch I could simply twist on and off when I needed it worked OK! part of the box of trade good I received, was a small laser, meant to mount on a handgun, it had a remote stitch and a accordion type of switch and wire assembly. I Mounted the AA Maglight on one side of the Shotguns extended tube facing forward and on the other this tiny Laser, I took the remote switch and contact cemented a strip of Velcro to Hold it in place on the for end where I pump the shotgun, but out of the way enough it's not impeding my loading and ejection action. I took that back out to my Home made "Playhouse" and tried it in light, dark and in sunlight, the weapon did outstanding! For the simple addition of a $5.00 stock shell holder, trade goods worth no more than $50.00 I added both the laser, Side saddle and a better sling! Now, I have a shotgun that will serve my specific need and has ammo tailored to the job and if that changes easily adapted to meet new requirements! My shotgun has a Black synthetic stock and forend set, but when I got it used, it had a cheap wood stock that had seen better days! Even with Replacing the Furnature set with a Synthetic, I got a better deal on the 870 Remington, as an older fellow had bought it, but his age and health precluded the continued use of a pump? He traded the 870 back into the dealer he bought it at a year later, the shot, willing to deal sold him a 1187 model Semi-auto and this 870 was put out for sale a week later! I have seen shotguns set up in a tactical package by Wilson Combat and other folks and I do like the looks and performance, but just can't see, nor afford 2000 for a 12Ga shotgun, Total investment for my "Redneck Tactical", is about $275.00!

    PICS OF Redneck Tactical once I was complete:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    If your wondering what to keep around the house for home defense, have multiple member of your family and don't want the danger of over penetration of your inside our outside walls to a neighbor, try the suggestions I have submitted here, you might find it suits your needs, as well as it did mine? Happy Shooting and remember 'FRONT SITE"
     
  2. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Nice hands-on intel Ron! :)

    I have stated several times when it comes to using a shotgun for HD, bird shot (6-8 shot) and Turkey shot, is the best indoor defense shotgun ammo to use and all will definitely do some very serious to lethal soft tissue damage to a BG, with little or no over penetration.

    If one is not satisfied with their primary results...hell just keep racking that slide and firing till you get the results you want.

    Jack
     

  3. RONSERESURPLUS

    RONSERESURPLUS New Member

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    tHANKS MAN

    IGETEVEN

    RON L HERE

    Yup, good comments, I do so agree and count on that myself! I appreciarted you taking the time to respond, so few do these days?

    RON
     
  4. IDVague

    IDVague New Member

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    Good info there, RON....I've known several people who will simply fill their shotgun with a heavy load or slugs and never think about the penetration issue. A buddy of mine once had a Winchester 1300 for HD and had it loaded with 00 Buckshot and 2 slugs at the back for the coup de grace if necessary, and he lived in a mobile home! When I asked if he realized how any of that would slice through his walls and into his neighbor's homes, it suddenly dawned on him. He went immediately and reloaded with 8-1/2 bird shot with a couple of 4's at the back.
     
  5. RONSERESURPLUS

    RONSERESURPLUS New Member

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    Thanks man

    Hello all, Thanks to ID vague

    Indeed, I like that a shotgun wil handle the heavy loads and shells like Slugs, love the HP slugs they have now and love how wellm they destroy and smash and all, as well as Buckshot, but, as I do live in a small House I did and used to have a few children in other rooms, as well as neighbors not all that far away, I had to wake up to the idea thats it's 'NOT ALL ABOUT ME"? I want a Load that will stop or Kill at room distenances. That said, I have to think hard about those folks that surrond us, or my children inthe other room? It's a matter of thinking the whole matter out, and seems many seem to not do that? We all want a 1 shot stop and all, but thats not allowing us to kill or main thoise not involved by overpenetration! Gotta pick the right tool, for the right job, and with a shotgun, you have many options and choices?


    RON
     
  6. ta1588

    ta1588 New Member

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    Very good insight on overpenetration. Gotta pick up some of the Remington HD 2x4 Loads :)
     
  7. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Good Post! I have been very happy with the "side-saddle" shell holder i put on my Mossberg 500.
     
  8. RONSERESURPLUS

    RONSERESURPLUS New Member

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    Thanks to all that commented!

    Hello all, RON L here, thanks to all that commented! Indeed, I see a shotgun as a well versitile weapon and capable of so many tasks, we need only be smart enough to match the right slug for the job in need of accomplishment?

    Ta, Thanks on your kind comments, Just trying to do my bit to add a little more to the foum!

    Orangello

    Oh yea, I was not all that in favor of strapping yet more stuff onto the shotgun, but as ya found witj your Mossy 500, the side sadle rig does work fairly well and is out of the way and I like it!


    RON
     
  9. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Active Member

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    Excellent research & post Ron! I've said the same thing for years. At across the room range bird shot will more than do the job. Since we live in the country I keep the 1st 2 or 3 rounds loaded with #4 turkey loads.
     
  10. MrShotty

    MrShotty New Member

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    I never considered it as a home defense round because I never really had an issue with people in the next room or directly next door. But, I am not against it, for sure.
     
  11. RONSERESURPLUS

    RONSERESURPLUS New Member

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    Thanks all, yup, I find a shotty a good friend on those dark nights?
     
  12. UnderFire

    UnderFire New Member

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    A well done report.
    I'm not doubting that bird shot will dispatch a BG, but why do LEO's and military security forces use Buckshot & slugs? They have the same concerns about overpenetration; innocent victims.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. RONSERESURPLUS

    RONSERESURPLUS New Member

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    Why LEO use Buckshot and slugs

    Hello Underfire

    RON L here

    From the mouth of a Cop I asked that same question of last month, he said, we don't know what we will run into they don't let us cary Rifles so this is the best we can do, they stated they carry smaller shot for inside if they get time to use indoors! As for Use on Humas and 6-7-8 shot, I've done test fires on Pis wrapped in Carpet, they penetrated vital organs at normal room ranges and I have a small house! On my stock sling and side saddle a mix of 00 # 4 Buck and slugs! If I have the need, I have the access?
     
  14. UnderFire

    UnderFire New Member

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    Hi Ron,
    yes, I agree with your above satements.
    I too have a variety of SD loads on my HD shotgun's (870 Police) side saddle.
    Have you tested LEO designed 00 Buckshot?
    I ask because it's designed to prevent overpenetration.
    I keep the low recoil Leo designed shots in my shotgun and slugs are kept in the side saddle if needed.
     
  15. doctherock

    doctherock New Member

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    Excellent post here Ron. Very informative and good info to know for everyone who owns a shotgun. I still need to add a Mossberg 500 mariner to my collection and when I do I will be sure to follow the advice here.
     
  16. RONSERESURPLUS

    RONSERESURPLUS New Member

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    Hello all, Responce to Underfire

    Hello all, Responce to Underfire!

    Thanks for your kind comments and no, I did not try the LEO buckshot, as I didn't have any, but as the Cop is one that I shoot with and trust his Opinion and all, I didn't know it would make a difference, is thier a commercial source for the same 00 Buckshot, I'd give it a try and try it on a pig from the Slaughter house if they had any soiled meat?

    RON
     
  17. UnderFire

    UnderFire New Member

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    Ron,
    Yes, Leo's are a great source of information.
    If you ever get a chance to talk with any servicemen that are in security forces they too are a great source of information. Military security forces personnel not only go through Combat Arms Training, but also theory and ballistic studies just to name a few of the training fields they partake in. These servicemen continue to go through technical schools to help them as their careers develop.

    LEO designed & military issue ammo is available on-line through different websites. I believe you will notice a difference when testing this type of ammo compared to the standard 00 Buck hunting loads. I've picked my ammo up at gun shows that I have attended in my state.
    It's true that LEO's & military's ammo has to be sufficient in all case scenarios.

    I enjoyed your report and respect the findings you have listed. Your report is very well done & very informative. I agree with you that everyone should consider what's best for them to use in their house. Residents that live in a mobile home shouldn't use 00 Buckshot in their HD shotguns. Although I live in a block home out in the country acres & acres from neighbors I won't use 0000 or 000 buckshot in my HD shotgun. I've enjoyed our discussion. :)
     
  18. rugermatt

    rugermatt New Member

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    i am also a beliver that there is nothing better than a shot gun for close encounters, but as i walk through my house with it when my dog stated barking like crazy, i realized how clumsy it was to manuver through the hallway. i decided my .45 left me with better manuverability. i still keep the mossberg 500 with the 18.5" barrel and knox recoil reducing stock close by. it's full of turkey load because i WILL shoot your ass through a wall if i think i need to, and bird shot might only piss a guy high on meth off. my first grab is on the night stand though, personally i don't want to look down the barrel of either.
     
  19. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Indeed. :) Just some shared personal experiences and observations note here: Meth/angle dust/cocain are often times overrated and firearms are most often times unjustly underrated when it comes to bringing down pharmaceutical enhanced bad guys. :rolleyes:

    Good round placement and follow up shots till desired effect is obtained, from just about any caliber, will pretty much stop, drop or severely physically disable anyone, even druggies.

    Did I mention well round placement and required repeated shot placement as needed? :D

    YMMV

    Jack
     
  20. RONSERESURPLUS

    RONSERESURPLUS New Member

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    Responce to Underfire

    Ron L here

    Thanks man, I enjoyed our conversation and your descrition of Leo and Military Training and past Training describes a lot of my 24 yeras in Uniform! Yes, In the military we did get some good Tactical Training, but I did get some of that as a Deputy Sheffif as well, thoguht it was a long time ago! I appreciated your coments as well!

    Responce to Igeteven and matt

    yup, Shot placement counts as well as a shotgun, I feel does me right in many cases, I love my handguns, but a shotgun will always have a Place in my HD duties! Thanks for your comments and I appreciated your takig the time to coment!

    RON