[Borden]

help with examples DA/SA pistols

I have been doing a bit of research, and I believe I know what characteristics I am looking for in a handgun. I am having a bit of difficulty finding examples that fit my description. When I pull up different manufacture's websites, there are different models with slight variences and it becomes combursome to muck through the details. I hope that someone here can help me.

Basically, I am looking for a double action 1st pull, single action subsequent pulls with no manual safety. I know the Sig P226 fits the bill, but what are some other examples.

I am currently persuing the 9mm as I am relatively new to firearms and I know I will spend a lot of time plinking. So I can save a bit of money, and I already have some ammo cached for my 9mm carbine (HP-995). I am not against other calibers, but it seems to be a good choice for me.

My budget is under a grand.

 

[Cnynrat]

Basically, I am looking for a single action 1st pull, double action subsequent pulls with no manual safety. I know the Sig P226 fits the bill, but what are some other examples.

I think you mean that the other way around - double action first pull, single action subsequent pulls. The Sigs are available with that action and no external manual safety.

I believe the Beretta PX4 Storm is also available in a double action/single action version with no external manual safety (Type G). I think they also offer a version with double action/single action with a combination external safety/decocking lever (Type F).

 

[Borden]

I think you mean that the other way around - double action first pull, single action subsequent pulls.

You are correct sir, I will edit my original post for clarity. Thank you.

I would also like to add the HK p30 and p2000 to the list.

 

[Dillinger]

Borden - it would appear that you and Cnynrat have worked out the D/A - S/A thing.

So, you have some 9mm rounds and you are looking at a 9mm pistol to share ammo between the two. Very smart.

Sig is a great company, and I have one of their 228's in .40 cal that has never given me a problem. They are a bit pricey, but they fit your category of a Single or Double action pistol and no manual safety.

H & K has a very poor customer service record around many of the forums, so take that into consideration. Having said that, I have a USP Tactical that has never given me any problems either, though it does have a manual safety on it.

Here is a very good article from HandgunInfo that talks about all the trigger groupings and their classification. ( With thanks from Firearmstalk )

That article might help narrow your field a bit and help clarify the "gray" area of some group triggers ( like Glock and Springfield XD )

JD

 

[Borden]

Thank you for the information Dillinger. The article was as inisghtful as it was confusing, unfortunately. I am going to spend a bit more time studing before I make a decision, but at the minimum, you have broadened my scope.

I was under the impression a SA was more dangerous than a DA because a SA must be carried cocked and locked. Although I have no sources to sight, I am certain I have read this in my studies.

I suppose I should change my original DA/SA preferance to say that I am looking for a pistol that has no external manual safety and has a relatively light/short trigger pull on the second round. I understand that sacrifing the safety means the handgun will have a long, hard initial trigger pull.

I was initially leaning towards the Sig p226, but I really like the idea of a grip safety and trigger safety on the XD. I will have to find out the difference between the XD and the XDm.

Thank you again, and please keep the suggestions coming.

 

[robocop10mm]

It does not exactly meet your criteria, but the Sig 229DAK is very interesting. I am currently cleaning up one for a friend and was absolutely amazed at the trigger. VERY reasonable for a double action only pistol. While it does not have a hard first round trigger pull, it does have a long enough trigger pull to satisfy the safety requirement. Subsequent pulls are the same but they are all VERY SMOOTH! I am a Sig armorer but generally not a huge fan. The DAK is very sweet!

 

[Dillinger]

Thank you for the information Dillinger. The article was as inisghtful as it was confusing, unfortunately. I am going to spend a bit more time studing before I make a decision, but at the minimum, you have broadened my scope.

Well, let's see if we can help you here so you don't get buyers remorse. That is what we are here for. And besides, I have some time on my afternoon that isn't doing anything but dodging annoying customers.

I was under the impression a SA was more dangerous than a DA because a SA must be carried cocked and locked. Although I have no sources to sight, I am certain I have read this in my studies.

That would be incorrect sir - but not by much. A single action pistol, such as a revolver, or my beloved 1911, can be carried with the hammer in the down position, a round in the chamber and be thrown high into the air only to fall directly on the concrete without any problems, other than damaging your weapon. DON'T DO THAT AT HOME. The hammer being down means the weapon can't "accidently" be fired. You would have to charge the weapon ( pull the hammer back ) to be able to touch the trigger to fire the weapon. to avoid confusion, we will talk about Condition One later on in the thread as we bring you up to speed.

I suppose I should change my original DA/SA preferance to say that I am looking for a pistol that has no external manual safety and has a relatively light/short trigger pull on the second round. I understand that sacrifing the safety means the handgun will have a long, hard initial trigger pull.

So, a true Double Action pistol is one that has the longer, heavier, first trigger pull will then discharge one round, and the resulting cycling of the action will convert it to a more standard short pull, light, crisp Single Action style pistol. Glocks, according to some recent reading, are NOT Double Action, but in fact, Single Action pistols once they are chambered with a round and have close to exactly the same trigger pull each time.

EDIT: Thanks to cnynrat below for making me do more research to get some more correct info.

I was initially leaning towards the Sig p226, but I really like the idea of a grip safety and trigger safety on the XD. I will have to find out the difference between the XD and the XDm.

See? There comes the manual safety, but the difference between Positive ( meaning you have to engage / disengage ) it, or a Negative manual safety, which means when you properly grasp the weapon, the safety is "Off". It's still a manual safety and keeps it from going bang if you drop it, which is a big plus in my book.

As for the difference in the XD versus the XDM, I think this will clarify it for you: Taken from a review of the new XDM

"The main Difference between the XD Tactical and the XDM is the grip. The XDM comes with interchangeable grips to adjust for the shooters preferred grip size"

As for the "M" designation

Springfield has gone out of their way to give as many "M" words in the description of the new pistol as possible to further confuse the buyer, but here are some:

M-atch grade barrel ( That's a plus in my book )
M-inimal Reset Trigger ( Shortest reset of poly pistols. Quicker back on target and firing)
M-aximum Reach Mag Release ( Fancy term for extended mag release )
M-ould Tru Backstraps ( Adjustable to the size of your hand )

So, there you have it. I think....LOL

JD

 

[Cnynrat]

That is every Double Action Pistol on the Market, that would include the Glock and the Springfield XD. The longer, heavier, first trigger pull will then discharge one round, and the resulting cycling of the action will convert it to a more standard short pull, light, crisp Single Action style pistol.

Hmmm, I could be wrong about this, but I think most DA pistols behave differently than that. *Trying to be the humble noob, bowing down to JD's typically infallible wisdom*

Certainly my wife's M&P-40, which I'm pretty sure would be characterized as a double action pistol, has the same trigger pull on every pull - relatively long but not too heavy. Not as heavy as the first DA pull on my P226 for instance. I believe the same is true of Glocks and XDs, but I've only shot them a few times.

Some folks even twist Glock's trademarked "Safe Action" around and call it "same action" in recognition that the trigger pull is always the same. They will cite the fact that you only need to learn one trigger pull as an advantage of that type of action over a DA/SA pistol.

 

[Dillinger]

^ I don't know bro, I have always noticed that the take up is different on the second and subsequent pulls, there is less creep and less over travel.

HOWEVER!!!​

I am frequently wrong on such things as the Plastic pistol category isn't my specialty. And, I have no problem being wrong again. I will edit my post above to include "I THINK" in it....​

On my 228, for example, the first pull is very long, but the rounds after that have more of a single action feel to it.​

I respect your opinion and if you say your pistol experience is different, it probably is and I am probably wrong. No worries....​

 

[Dillinger]

Well, I have been doing some reading and I have come across both sides of the argument.

Glocks apparently have almost the same trigger pull everytime, according to some reports I have read.

Springfield's XD is reported to have a somewhat lighter trigger pull after the first round is fired.

I have only shot an XD in the last year or so, I haven't shot a Glock since they came out.

So, it would appear they DO NOT fit my post as listed above - I freely admit to being INCORRECT and will edit accordingly...

JD

 

[oldandslow]

Borden, 2/19/09

I have a number of DA/SA (also called TDA for traditional double action) pistols in 9mm so maybe I can offer some suggestions.

Beretta- look at the 92 series. The military has been using it for twenty years and it is a reasonably priced, reliable pistol.

CZ- look at the CZ-75 PCR. It is an aluminum framed pistol with a decocker. Most of the CZ pistols are excellent.

Sig- look at the 226, 228 and 229. The 226 is the full size, the others a mid-size. Almost any Sig you get is great right out of the box.

HK- I have one of the USP-compact pistols (but in .45 caliber). Many people have difficulty finding aftermarket parts and customer service can be terrible. New magazines are expensive, about $50 apiece. Generally they are more expensive than a comparable quality pistol as you are paying for the name brand.

And don't forget the used market. There are a number of high quality 9mm's with very little use for sale at great prices. Take a look at . In particular look at used SW pistols like the 5906, 5903, 6906.

Good luck- oldandslow

 

[Mark F]

My P345 is SA/DA and its as good as you can expect. Long first shot, short and light followups. I like it, but my CZ75B blows them all away...