HELP PLEASE Two guns i found CHEAP

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by markie357, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. markie357

    markie357 New Member

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    Hey everyone, I found two guns and I'm tempted to pick one or both up but I'm looking for all of your experienced opinions please.
    The first is a Jimenez single action 380 used
    And the other is a 1911 22 cal single action Chiappa also used. I personally have never heard of either of them.
    I have read a ton on here that you get what you pay for and that kinda scares me bein a newbie and all. I get my cpl on Friday, I originally want the SR9c Unfortunately not in my budget at the moment. I want something I can at least carry so so I can get the feel of it being there and also so I can go practice at the range. I also do not want to spend my money on something that will put a huge dent in my Ruger money. Just want to be able to carry ASAP so I can get used to it and I have read it takes some gettin used to. Thanks everyone
     
  2. marc29th

    marc29th New Member

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    "Danger Will Robinson" I wouldn't buy a Jimenez at any price! Save your money and get a better firearm. For $300 you can get a quality carry gun. The Chippawa would be a good gun to learn on... not so much for carry.
     

  3. Wiebelhaus

    Wiebelhaus New Member

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    Do not get that Jimenez not worth fifty bucks but if you do, don't keep one in the pipe, they are not trust worthy in the least.
     
  4. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    All right, how much is you life worth if you rely on a "cheap" firearm to protect your a$$?

    Investing in self protection is not only purchasing the firearm (and holsters (yep, more than one), extra mags, good belt, and who knows what other accessories), but also training, dedication to learn, and practice.

    A firearm by itself will not protect you or make you invincible.

    When you carry, your whole life will change. You become more aware of things and possible dangers to you and those around you.
    Partying and enjoying a couple drinks is no longer an option, but forbidden if you are to be a responsible firearm carrier.

    Your choice of firearm should be of one you can trust, the brand should have a good reputation, and be of powerful enough to stop the threat.

    Have you looked at the options of how you are going to carry a firearm? An inside the waist may conceal pretty good, but how does it work when you sit down? Outside the waist could be bulky. Shoulder holster carry is okay when you wear a jacket, but if you are wearing a jacket when it is 98° outside, then someone could guess that you are hiding something. Ankle rig may work (but not if you wear shorts).

    There is more to self protection than just buying a gun.
     
  5. hoovco

    hoovco New Member

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    You don't need to spend a fortune on a good carry gun, but if you're going to make concealed carry a part of your lifestyle, it's worth getting something nice, well known, and reliable.
     
  6. markie357

    markie357 New Member

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    Thank you all for your answers and danf my guess will be you skimmed through my post so thanks for YOUR opinion on what I may or may not know instead of on the guns I asked about.
     
  7. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    Based only on your original post...

    I fully endorse buying what you can when you can, in almost every situation, this included.

    If you feel the need to be armed and/or desire to protect yourself, then by all means do so as best you can. If you have limited funds with no increase in availability of spare in the near future then use what you have.

    It appears to me that you are doing your due diligence here, researching the brands and firearms within your budget and for that no one can or should question or judge a single element of.

    Now to the guns:

    I have ACTUAL firsthand experience with Jimenez products, 3 to be exact. I am also a major SNS supporter and student, have owned over 10 handguns from the most infamous ROF brands. I've taken them completely apart and reassembled, I've studied and owned different generations and read much information on the history of these brands. So the opinions below, and they are just that, are based on this research.

    The bad! Most of these guns are made with subpar quality materials. Zamak! Is a zinc based alloy, making it cheaper to produce, but softer. To compensate for the lack in foundation these SNS manufacturers make their guns thicker. It adds weight to the gun, quite a bit, and does help, but they're still known to have pressure cracks with a higher frequency than that of guns made of higher quality metals.

    The Jimenez is best if it's the large frame 380LC. The small frame had cracking issues. The large can still have its issues and has reports of these same cracks with the older models with plastic Takedown pins, but all new ones use metal now and are known for their reliability to anyone who cares to not remain ignorant about something and actually educate themselves past the Internet loud mouths. A way to identify these new models is by the box. Flip top lid rather than fully removable. As long as the serial on the gun matches the box and is a flip top lid you've ensured you have the best possible chance of getting a quality a gun as you would with any other manufacturer can given quality control can only go so far.

    The Chiappa. I wish I had info for you on this gun, I don't, however I would advise that a 380 is a much better round for self defense than a Rimfire 22lr. That said you did mention you wish this gun to give you an idea of what is going to be like to carry a gun once you get your CPL. My advice here is not to use either of these guns for that purpose. The Jimenez will be very heavy and the Chiappa I believe is a full size 1911 and unless you plan on CCing such a large gun, it won't be a good gage for this. Though if the two it would become a fun gun for plinking later down the road and much cheaper to shoot!

    Anyway, just my dime on the subject.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  8. PrimePorkchop

    PrimePorkchop New Member

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    There's no skimming the posts. I agree with what danf said.

    Think of it this way:

    Why buy just any gun to carry? If you want to start carrying right away, why carry with a different gun?

    A 1911 .22lr is going to feel completely different from a 1911 .45acp. The 45 will be bigger and heavier.

    Getting a 1911 frame to get used to isn't going to give you any insight on what it feels like to carry a compact firearm, something like a Glock 26, or, as you point out the Ruger Sr9C.

    You're asking for opinions. Danf's opinion is the same as mine - what you're asking for someone to agree with you on isn't feasible.

    You're essentially saying you're going to buy a dodge dart to get used to knowing what it feels like driving a Corvette.

    Save your money, it'll keep you that much closer to getting that Ruger.

    That's my advice.

    And that Jimenez is junk. Stay away.
    The 1911 would be a fun piece to take to the range, but a 22 isnt what you want to carry, so don't buy a 22 for carry purposes. Not even to "see how it feels"

    It's a waste of money if that's your purpose.

    What it sounds like to me is you want someone to agree with you, since you really want one of those guns.

    If thats how you want to spend your $$$, go for it, don't wait for a strangers approval.

    But you're not going to be happy with it in the end.

    You're not going to learn what its like carrying a Ruger Sr9C by buying a 1911 22lr.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  9. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    gee, Dan gives you some very good information to give thought to and you dismiss it, just because he didn't address those two particular pistols you suggested? sorry, but IMO your comments came of as pretty rude and in poor taste. Dan was pretty well spot on with his information.

    to answer your question! the Jennings are considered by most to be junk and better used a trot line weght or a paperweight, not a CC pistol. the 1911 22lr pistol would be considered by most not a very good choice either for a CC pistol. rimfires are not usually the best choice for CC. the 380 would be smallest i would ever consider for CC.

    as Dan said, what price do you put on your safety? cheap guns are usually that, cheap guns!
     
  10. Dearhunter

    Dearhunter Supporting Member Supporter

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    Hey Markie, ease up, take the advise you are being given by those on the board that have been there. The Jimenez is a problem gun. If you want the "feel" get something that will really do the job. On the low end, I suggest you find a Kel Tec 9mm, You may find one for about $295 if that is in your budget. I carry a Kel Tec 9mm. I have had no problems firing mine. Plus you can put a clip on it for about $14, that way you don't need a holster. I slid the clip on my belt and wear mine in between my belt and pants. If fits so flat, you could wear it under a T shirt. If that does not sound good to you, then just slow down and make the right decision.

    typo corrected
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  11. markie357

    markie357 New Member

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    Well Prime at least when you came off you weren't swearing and assuming things. I found a P95 listed for $250, this guy was asking $200 for the 22 is that Ruger considered a cheap gun? Your reply was quite helpful and extremely informative although you say I want someone to agree, not true I'm actually looking for opinions about two guns and they both seem to be crap so I keep saving and keep looking its that simple.
    Beyond thanks but its small frame.
    Dearhunter thanks for the name calling.
    Is the clip like the Mic for a Glock?
     
  12. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    I wouldn't do it then, especially not for 200.

    Ruger p95 is known to be a great quality gun. I'm guessing it won't stay around 250 unless there's something wrong with it.
     
  13. PrimePorkchop

    PrimePorkchop New Member

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    See, here's the problem.

    Nobody is calling you any names. Nobody is swearing or assuming. We're giving you our opinions based on the information you gave us.

    You're new to CC. You don't own any CC guns. You were presented with 2 guns, one good, one bad, don't know which to buy.

    If you had said for general collection/shooting at the range, I'd say absolutely go after the 1911 22lr

    but you said to carry on you.

    So we say "Dont get either one"

    There's no need to be so snarky man.
     
  14. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    So to sum all of this up, the op has learned that there is a big difference between a "cheap gun" and an "inexpensive" gun with examples being the Jiminez "cheap", and the Ruger "inexpensive" but a quality firearm.

    Op... I think what you may be mistaking for "un requested" advice is simply members with a lot of experience cautioning you from making the same mistake we've all made...IE...buying the gun we CAN afford right now because, well, we can buy it RIGHT NOW!

    At the risk of sounding like a gun snob, which I'm not, I can say the of my substantial collection, the pistol that gives me the most pleasure and joy of ownership is my Kimber Eclipse Pro II.

    Its not because it's an "expensive" gun. Got it new 10 hears ago for $840.00
    It IS because it's the gun I Wanted, took the time to research, saved my money to buy, and all that patience delivered what "to me"'is the finest defensive/CCW pistol available.

    Now, my "finest"'is certainly subjective and will be different for everyone but the point is valid. Identify what YOU want, research it and save for it. As long as you've targeted a new gun from a reputable manufacturer, you WILL wind up being happy with your purchases .

    Good Luck and be Safe

    Tack
     
  15. HOSSFLY

    HOSSFLY New Member

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    Say NO to both IMO-
    Yes- I've had both!
     
  16. Dearhunter

    Dearhunter Supporting Member Supporter

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    Dearhunter thanks for the name calling.
    Is the clip like the Mic for a Glock?[/QUOTE]


    No name calling just a simple one letter typo, it has been corrected

    The clip kit for the Kel Tec is an actual clip that attach's to the gun. see photo

    DSCN0631_resized.jpg
     
  17. markie357

    markie357 New Member

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    Hossfly thanks I agree after all the reading, Dearhunter my apologies and that looks interesting. I actually found 2 available last night, just getting paid once a month makes buying myself presents rough so i hope it'll be there next week even if just for the range so I can stop spending my $$ on rentals
     
  18. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

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    When you get some advice on here, it's probably from experience. I can tell you that back when I turned 21 I wasn't much of the internet type and surely wasn't on any forums. I was hellbent on buying a handgun and off I went uneducated and unprepared. I bought a Lorcin .25 pocket gun and a Lorcin 9mm for home and range. Two of the biggest turds on the planet. I should have known based on price alone that they were all but worthless. (I think the .25 was like $50) And then to add another self inflicted wound I bought my wife a Lorcin .25 with pink plastic grips. (at this point in my life, I would shoot my stupid ass self should I run into me with a time machine for my ignorance) The 9mm blew goats. Lots of misfires, FTE, FTF you name it this gun had that problem. The .25 I carried got dirty from riding in my pocket (lint is so unfriendly to semi-auto actions) and I got ahold of the manual and decided to strip clean and reassemble it. (Again, 21 no experience with guns) I disassembled it and it never worked again. It wasn't that it wasn't put back together correctly, I had a gunsmith look at it. (he had mercy and checked it out for free since I was broke) It was simply the poor metal quality had over time degraded to a point that the tolerances were worn so badly it wouldn't function. It thus became a $50 paper weight. About 6 months after purchase the 9mm starting misfiring every other trigger pull. It would literally only fire every other shot. I sold it to some chump whom I told it had issues for $50. (loss of $150) At this point, I didn't want my wife using that junk so I sold hers for like $30. I decided to buy new. I bought a Jennings 9mm. Come to find out, Lorcin had gone out of business and Jennings had started making the exact same guns. (again, I had no gun knowledge and was completely unprepared) Straight out of the box that SOB would only fire every other round. I got so pissed off I sold it for $100 (a $100 loss for a gun that was only a couple weeks old) At that point, I was fed up with crappy guns. I went and bought myself a Glock model 30 subcompact .45 I then went and bought my wife a Beretta Bobcat .22 I still have both of those all these years later.

    So after reading all that, if you are still reading this, the moral of the story is that I pissed away enough money on junk that I could have bought the Glock to begin with and still had some coin in my pocket for all the crap I bought as an uneducated gun buyer. Bryco Arms made the names Lorcin, Jennings, Bryco and is now Jimenez and I believe Cobra as well (though I'm not sure about Cobra) Lorcin went out of business in 1996 or so due to overwhelming lawsuits against them. Such poor quality weapons as they were, they had multiple instances of unintended firing, sometimes from simply trying to unload them. Others simply broke apart. You can see what happens to cheap metal produced guns here; http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=41897

    Here's the best part though. I'm cutting and pasting this:
    "Due to California law requiring California-manufactured guns to pass safety tests, Jimenez Arms submitted passing test results on the new guns to the state, but the guns failed subsequent additional independent tests. The law requires that upon failure, the manufacturer must correct the problem and resubmit for additional testing. Rather than complete the process, Jimenez Arms ceased California operations and established itself in Nevada, which has no safety testing requirements for firearms."

    These guns, through all of their incarnations, have been called "Saturday Night Specials" because they are cheap throw aways for criminals.

    As for the Chiappa, I've never used one of their handguns but I do have the M4-22 dedicated .22 AR15 upper that I use to go to the range on the cheap. One of my wifes coworkers just bought one this week for a range gun. I think it's a little large for a carry weapon, especially in .22 You could get a fullsize 1911 in .45 in the same size. Bottom line, save your money and buy something that works for your intended uses that is of good enough quality that your life can depend on it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  19. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    GeneralPatton, very well said and very good advice for those new to guns.

    another thing i will add is this, do your research before buying, not after. it happens quite a bit here on the forum.
     
  20. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Tools are a case of you get what you pay for, and a firearm is nothing more than a tool. Would a mechanic rebuild an engine with tools he got in a True Value $5 bin, or would he use the best tools that are in his price range?

    I can vouch for the low quality of the Jiminez, Jennings, and Bryco semi-autos. I own a J-22 that is only kept around for one reason. It belonged to my mother.My father bought it in 1986 while he was stationed in NC, so mom would have a "bump in the night" gun while he was out of country. In the end, after a lot of minor problems with the operation of the pistol, he and I decided that she would be better off using the GP100 instead. The only positive thing I can say about that little POS is that it is one hell of a good paperweight.

    The Chiappa 1911 is something I would buy, but only as a range toy. I would not be saving much by shooting it instead of my AMT Hardballer due to the fact that I reload, but it sounds like a nice little range toy. I just can't bring myself to think of a .22 LR as a defensive round. If it is all you can afford, it is better than no gun, but not by much.

    Save your money, and buy something better for an EDC. I only purchased one of my handguns myself. One was bought by my wife and put on both permits as a Christmas and anniversary gift, and the other 4 were handed down to me by my dad. I am all for buying used, and buying middle if the price range guns. Personally, I will never, and have never, bought any cheap guns. I know that the price on the pair in your OP is at a temptingly low price, but if you buy them you will be in for a lot of headaches. You will also be under armed if you ever need to protect yourself. Just my $.02, YMMV.