Help me with a Canadian debate

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by themyst, Jun 5, 2010.

  1. themyst

    themyst New Member

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    I'm having a discussion of sorts with a person on a different forum about gun ownership. She is very happy that Toronto (Canada) doesn't have people walking around with guns and claims Toronto has a very low crime rate because of it. I did a preliminary look up and it seems they do have a pretty low crime rate.

    But, I know lack of gun ownership does not = lower crime. So, I'm really not sure what the correlation is there.

    I notice that Labrador and Newfoundland have a very high rate of gun ownership and their crime rates are low, too.

    I'm not a very good arguer. Does anyone have a good place for statistics regarding the Canadian gun control situation?
     
  2. JSDinTexas

    JSDinTexas New Member

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    While I try to post correct answers or reply with some knowledge or meaningful response, in this case I can only say don't waste your time.

    If you just have to, I would not rely on stats, but ask the simple question, what are cops for and what do they do?
    Answer: uphold and enforce the law and protect citizens and themselves, where possible, with professional knowledge and skills.

    In having and carrying a firearm, that is what I am doing.
     

  3. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Fear Fueling Gun Violence - Toronto Sun newspaper

    Toronto struggles with rising gun violence

    Staring down the barrel - CBC Toronto

    Toronto's battle against gun violence and gangs

    Google "gun violence" and toronto and you'll find a bunch more articles.

    My brother lives in Toronto and we visit him often. 30 years ago, it was far safer than it is today. Gangs today are a huge problem there, and oddly enough they don't seem to worry about Ontario's gun control laws.

    My sister-in-law is under the impression American cities are horrifically dangerous but that Toronto is safe. The fact is, there's no discernible difference anymore between that city and most American cities.

    Lack of criminals lowers crime. Lack of law-abiding gun owners attracts criminals. Do the math.
     
  4. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    I have to ask what is a low crime rate? Compared to where?

    Also keep in mind that Canada has also decriminalized certain things that are still illegal here in the states, and that will account for some reduced crime rates.

    But, you will never win an arguement with anti-gunners. You can provide stats until you are exhausted, and they will still blame guns for crimes. Ask this person if they feel safe enough to walk through the whole city of Toronto at 3 am alone. A truthful answer will be no. Then ask them if they would feel safer if walking along side an armed police officer at the same time of morning. A truthful answer will be yes.
     
  5. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    I would be terrified to walk the streets in Toronto- drunk drivers. With all those cars, there must be drunk drivers.

    Please note, the above IS hyperbole- just as is equating gun ownership with criminal acts. MOST cars are not driven by drunks, and MOST guns are not used by criminals.

    However, you have a language barrier problem to deal with here. You are talking sense, and she is not. Let me know how that works out for ya. :rolleyes:
     
  6. themyst

    themyst New Member

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    I've decided to let it go. She also claimed that she felt it was best to give a criminal whatever they wanted and just pick yourself up and get over it. :eek: Err, can't do that if you're dead. :rolleyes: I was really kind of shocked that anyone thought that way - and later, I figured her own comment did her in enough without me pursuing it further.
     
  7. Last Crow

    Last Crow New Member

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    Switzerland has a low crime rate and there is an automatic weapon in almost every home. Mexico has a high crime rate and they have very strong gun control. England had low crime rates at one time now that they have strong gun control there crime rates are also up. The stats on England are easy to find. Crime rates have been going down over the years as gun ownership and CC has been going up in the US.
     
  8. Pat-inCO

    Pat-inCO New Member

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    Sounds like an excellent decision.

    When she is the victim of crime, she may well rethink her position (presuming she survives). :rolleyes:
     
  9. Ruger44

    Ruger44 New Member

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    What a dimwit. So, she's walking down the street with her five year old daughter, and someone tries to snatch the child - and she just stands there and does nothing? Or, someone attacks her physically and she dosen't try to fend off the miscreant? Unbelievable!!!
     
  10. Angry_bald_guy

    Angry_bald_guy Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I don't know a single mother around here that would just allow their child to be taken without putting up a fight. A fight that would be much easier if the mother was armed with a firearm.
     
  11. Ruger44

    Ruger44 New Member

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    Oh, I agree with being armed. But my wife would have fought like a tiger even unarmed. Those ultra libs though, their mindset is outa wack. I have my doubts about them in the scenario I just described. For years their govt (Canadian) has told the folks that we will take care of you in every way and that kind of thing permeates the minds of the people and individual initiative is destroyed. I know, I have many Canadian relatives. I've seen it. My one cousin just freaked out when she saw my extensive gun collection, as if the things were gonna jump off the rack and injure her.
     
  12. Swampbilly

    Swampbilly New Member

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    Although I have not thoroughly researched total crime percentages before or after Canada's handgun ban...I have also wondered the same thing myself.

    I once had to travel to Toronto on a business trip and read the local newspapers. I thought to myself..."Well, they have a handgun ban, so should be no murders, eh?" Well, plastered everywhere in the newspaper were stories of violent crime, murders, using knives as the weapon. I never saw so many murder and crime stories using knives.

    If there is the will to commit the crime or murder, a criminal will find some "tool" to use as a weapon. Of course the ANTI-DEFENSE, "Ban everything" crowd will just move on to knife bans...this is exactly what is going on now in England. The ANTI's live in teh hopes of realizing an unrealistic ideal of some utopian dream world that is not reality.

    It's not about safety...it's about control of the unwashed masses (that's you and me) and the eventual ban of the God-given rights to self-defense. I think if you really did the research, it would be discovered that violent crime in Canada has not reduced...just perpetrating with different weapons.


    Regards,

    Swampbilly
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  13. 556plinker

    556plinker New Member

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    my opinion

    She has advanced farther than you and I from an evolutionary standpoint. As we become more civilized and farther from the lions, tigers and bears eating us our self defense mechanisms have devolved because they are rarely or never used. In another 100 years or so your family will probably have the same attitude. Its not your fault you are of the upper paleolithic hunter gatherer mindset and she is in the rennaissance. I'm not poking fun at you as I haven't managed to evolve to that stage of enlightenment either. I'm currently seeking counseling to help me with my current "robbers kicking in my window" phobia. It's like my 45 acp. is my pacifier/blankie or something.....I just can't give it up.:(
     
  14. Swampbilly

    Swampbilly New Member

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    Considering that twice in my life, I have had robbers "kick in my window"...I do not consider it a phobia.


    Regards,

    Swampbilly
     
  15. 556plinker

    556plinker New Member

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    @ swampbilly

    I am terrified and it is a phobia for me......If I could get over it I would relinquish control of my current self defense mechanism (45 acp.). I can't let go, I'm just not capable of being able to deal with a robber kicking in my window without it at this point in time. I'm hoping with counseling I will attain the enlightenment necessary to bring me to the point where I am weapon free.
     
  16. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    So tell me, Mr. Burdock- why do you feel the need to bring up the size of a penis?

    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." ("General Introduction to Psychoanalysis," S. Freud)

    You really should seek counseling.
     
  17. 007BondJamesBond007

    007BondJamesBond007 New Member

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    Do you have to get a permit to conceal a hockey stick in Canada?Ehhhhhhhhhhhh
     
  18. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty comical.
    I have a buddy that lives in Toronto and he flew to Indianapolis last month for the Moto GP race. He showed up early in the day and I got there around mid-afternoon and met him at the bar in a restaurant and about an hour into the drinking we got into the same conversation. The lady to his right and the bartender started to rip him down for it as both of them had a CCP.
    We got back to the hotel and our other friend was their who is an Indiana resident with a CCP and had two 45's sitting on the desk in the room.
     
  19. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Classic sheeple mentality. Just give them what they want? What if they want to repeatedly sodomize you and your child, then cut out your kidneys for sale on the black market.

    Stupid, weak, people who are incapable of defending themselves then want you to give up your RIGHT to defend your self? Eff-em
     
  20. Angry_bald_guy

    Angry_bald_guy Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Holy crap! He's back!