Hello/Question from a new member

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by Nightwin, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. Nightwin

    Nightwin New Member

    Hi all,
    I have been reading posts on this site for about a month and have to say that I am very impressed with the content and knowledge of its members.To that end I was wondering if the community might be able to help with a few questions.
    I am new to the AR-15 platform, and have been researching AR's for a little while and like the variability of the platform and an looking to get one. Here in lines my dilemma, I would like one that I can take to range (about twice a month) for plinking out to about 600 yards, I am not that good of a shot now but hope to improve to be able to hit something at 600 yards with practice. However, I unfortunately live near (2-3 miles) a big cat rescue (they currently have over 40 big cats, as in mountain loin or larger, and includes seven 600+ pound tigers) and I recently found out, through a neighbor who is a volunteer fire fighter, that they do not have an evacuation plan for the cats if a natural disaster occurs, ie. fire or hurricane.
    So I would like to get something to protect my family from adult tigers and still be able to go the range and practice without have to spend $2-3 a shot.
    Is this possible or would I be better off getting two different weapons?
    Is the 5.56 powerful enough to take down an adult tiger or do I need something larger?
    If the 5.56 would work I as thinking about a Daniel Defense M4V5 with a two stage trigger, or a SR-15. I really like the SR-15 but worry about availability of the proprietary components.
    Any advice is appreciated!
    ps. sorry for the long post but hate when someone asks "what should I get?" without letting you know what they are going to use it for or why.
  2. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

    Anything is possible but some things are less probable. In the extremely unlikely event of a tiger attack, I suppose several rounds of 5.56 would subdue or deter a big cat.

  3. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 Active Member

    hi, well im very happy that you have been doing some research. personally, i would not prefer a .223 to take down a lion. im sure if shot placement was good you MAY do it i would not want to chance it. there are several larger calibers that fit the AR-15 lower. but price of ammo is a concern so i assume you don't reload. the other calibers can get very pricey real quick...

    heres my advice. go with a .22e/5.56 to start. its cheaper(sometimes)and wiith practice will get you to the 500 maybe 600 yard line. you could then just get another complete upper in say .458 socom. to be able to switch out with the lower in case of lion emergencies. kepping a mag a box of ammo and an upper would probly wun about the same cost as a good bolt action .308... probly even more but it would fit your need... i suppose your best option is to get an ar-15 and a mosin nagant... good caliber cheap ammo for that crazy man eating lion.
  4. ccase39

    ccase39 Member

    Or just buy the standard 223/556 and begin a build on a 300 Blackout, a 50 cal, or 7.62×54mm.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2013
  5. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

    The, aer, ah, well, first, welcome to the FTF.

    Second, not many public ranges go to 600 yards,

    so make friends, find a shooting buddy with a large

    property. Beer and lunch, of course, will usually

    be on you.

    Third, you probably wouldn't see a big cat

    at 300 yards, let alone 600 yards. They are

    natural stalkers, have hides which blend easily at

    a distance, and stay concealed, for the most part,

    during the day.

    I'd get familiar with 22LR, they make a nice M&P15/22

    which is basically AR in design. Then hone accuracy at

    50, and 100 yards, for the time being. Must public ranges

    have those distances.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2013
  6. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

    Get a 5.56 for your range fun. Then get a 12ga with some buckshot and slugs in the event of a tiger emergency. Likely if you need it they will be close enough.
  7. ccase39

    ccase39 Member

    Honestly I dont think any size buck shot would be reliable. Once they get close enough for buckshot to be effective its already to late. Those things are nimble and quick. A couple of well placed slugs should get the job done. I would talk to the local wildlife and fisheries and ask them what they recommend and get any tips on how to react if they did in fact break out.
  8. Nightwin

    Nightwin New Member

    Yes, I agree the the likelihood of having to fend off a big cat is extremely small, just do not like them so close to home when they are managed by unprepared people.
    Luckly I have a range about 15 miles away that has lanes from 50 to 600 yard, that is just for practice and the fun of seeing if I can do it, I know I would never see a tiger that far away.
    I like the idea of a second upper and/or getting a 12 gauge.
    That a good idea ccase39, I will contact the local wildlife and see what they say.

    Thanks for the input!
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2013
  9. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

    I think a lot of people underestimate the power of the .223 round. You are not talking about actively hunting dangerous game. When we talk about self defense we are not limited to 5 round mags. I would think that a 30 round mag full of .223 coming out of a semi-auto rifle is going to mess up anything you shoot with it pretty bad.
  10. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

    I knew someday I'd find an excuse for my Mosin M44! Otherwise I really don't have much in my arsenal to take on a tiger or more likely, a grizzly.

    Welcome Nightwin! A 5.56 AR has many uses but not big predators. I'm not confident any caliber for the AR-15 lower is up to that task. I'd feel better with at least .308/30.06 but I'd put much research into the decision.
  11. Anna_Purna

    Anna_Purna New Member

    Do what they do in india. Bring a lamb or goat with you in the outdoors. The tigers will go for that, and leave you alone. Until they finish consuming the lamb. :D

    And seriously, if a large cat of any kind is stalking you, you will never know it until it is at your throat. Something like a 44 mag or bigger with a chest holster is better than any long gun or shotgun on your shoulder. if it bites into your skull, their fangs will puncture into your brain and disable you with one bite.

    If you live in open country, and are talking 600 yard shots, you have plenty of time to get to a car.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2013
  12. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    While a 5.56 NATO AR rifle or carbine CAN hit a target at 600M, the bullet doesn't retain a lot of energy at that distance and would be affected by wind more so than 7.62 NATO / .308, .30-06, or 7.62x54R bullet would be.

    If you require inexpensive practice with a cartridge that retains some energy at 600M, 7.62x54R is hard to beat.

    As far as rifles and carbines are concerned, 600M is where bolt action rifles start to make more sense than semi-automatic rifles.

    Although a proficient marksman could hit a target at 600M with a semi-automatic rifle, someone who has never shot past 100M or so probably should work on marksmanship fundamentals first. At 600M, you're going to have to have decent range estimation, ability to read the wind, know how to operate a telescopic sight, and so on.

    If you want to do that with centerfire cartridges that are relatively inexpensive, then 7.62x54R is the way to go.

    If you have enough money for ammo, then you can opt for 7.62 NATO / .308 or .30-06.

    If you have enough money to purchase a SR-15 or SR-25, money is clearly not a major factor in your purchase decision.

    For maximum bang-for-the-buck, I'd look into a standard Remington 700 in .308 or .30-06 with a light contour, as opposed to target or varmint contour, 20"-24" barrel. Add a piece of quality glass. The glass should cost more than the rifle. Purchase military surplus 7.62 NATO or bulk .308 FMJ cartridges for practice.

    If funds are more limited, a Mosin Nagant and a synthetic stock like an ATI or something similar is probably the way to go.

    Remingtons and Mosin Nagants are not the only bolt guns out there. Winchester, Savage, Howa, and others will work just as well. It's mostly personal preference. I like Remington 700's because they work well, are relatively inexpensive, there are a variety of factory models to choose from, and most 700's are pretty accurate from the box.

    Either way, a bolt action rifle is going to be more precise, simpler to maintain and operate, and cost less than a semi-automatic rifle that is the same price.

    As therewolf pointed out, you won't typically see a big cat at any extended distance, as they are nocturnal and camouflaged. Any reliable pump shotgun with slugs or buckshot will work for defense against that kind of critter.
  13. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

  14. eatmydust

    eatmydust New Member

    If it came down to me vs. a big cat, up close, I'd def. want an extended mag, 12 ga. pump shotgun, loaded with foster or Brenneke slugs. JMHO
  15. Donn

    Donn Active Member

    Sad to say, saw tigers fall to M-16's when I was in-country. That said, with animals that size, I wouldn't count on "one shot, one kill" regardless of the rifle caliber.
  16. fsted2a

    fsted2a Active Member

    And here is my .02 . Get a .22 upper for inexpensive (right now anyway) plinking to hone your marksmanship skills. For big cat SHTF, get a 12 guage with a pistol grip and adjustable buttstock, and keep rifled slugs handy. To be honest, if the cat is 600 yards away and you can see it, that means you have enough time to get in the car and drive the other way. Not trying to be pacifist, but if you shoot it with a 5.56 and don't kill it, you will probably really piss it off.
  17. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

    Thats why magpul makes 30 rd and now 40 rd mags ;) . Just in case of the tiger release
  18. mudpupp

    mudpupp New Member

    This is an easy question.

    Get yourself a Sig Sauer 716 Patrol or even the 20" Marksman.

    This gives you the AR platform, 20 Round Magazines, and the .308/7.62 x51 ammo will reach out to 600 yards all day long.

    Ammo can still be had at under a dollar and having 20 rounds would sure give me piece of mind if having to take on a pride of lions.

    Now.. Give us a tough question ;)
  19. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

    I'm all for the .454 socom or 50 beowulf upper. You definately have a good reason to have that caliber.
  20. pawjr74

    pawjr74 New Member

    You don't need much firepower to deal with the escaped zoo animals. All you need to do is shoot someone else in the leg then you'll be able to outrun them. Heck a bat would even work if that's all ya got! :p