Head to head 308 family cartridges.

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Apex-Predator, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. Apex-Predator

    Apex-Predator New Member

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    Did a quick comparison of the 308 family of cartridges for a 500 yard hunting/target cartridge, and I figured I would post the results.
    All measured with 200 yd zero at 500 yd.
    Measured everything with Ballistic Tips since to me they are something of the standard by which everything else is judged, and I threw in some ultra high BC bullets such as the Berger VLD and Accubond LR, all speeds are set to mimic factory loads.

    308
    2700fps 168gr Ballistic Tip 1864fps 1297 ft/lbs 48.2" drop
    2600fps 180gr Ballistic Tip 1807fps 1307 ft/lbs 51.8" drop
    2500fps 190gr Accubond LR 1874 fps 1482 ft/lbs 52.3" drop

    7mm-08
    2800fps 140gr Ballistic Tip 1938fps 1167ft/lbs 44.6" drop
    2700fps 150gr Ballistic Tip 1869fps 1163 ft/lbs 48.2" drop
    2700fps 150gr Accubond LR 2016fps 1354 ft/lbs 44.7" drop

    260 Rem
    2950fps 120gr Ballistic Tip 2012fps 1079 ft/lbs 40" drop
    2750fps 140gr Ballistic Tip 1933fps 1162 ft/lbs 45.6" drop
    2950fps 123gr SST 2099fps 1203 ft/lbs 38.9" drop
    2750fps 140gr VLD 2061fps 1321 ft/lbs 42.8" drop

    243
    2950fps 95gr Ballistic Tip 1842fps 716ft/lbs 44.2"" drop
    2950fps 95gr VLD 2051fps 887 ft/lbs 39.8" drop
     
  2. TruggieTex

    TruggieTex New Member

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    Wow!

    Nice work, Dr. Apex....

    To confirm, drop is represented as the difference in 200 and 500yds?
     

  3. Apex-Predator

    Apex-Predator New Member

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    Yep, 200yd zero and drop measured at 500 yd.
    Seems to me that the best compromise is between the 7mm-08 and 260, they both deliver impressive energy with respectable trajectory, but the original held it's own quite well with the 168gr.
     
  4. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    ok. .308 w/ 200 yard zero, Barnes 168gr TTSX MV 2650(2700 is max load for this weight, Usually does not shoot well) At 500 yards it has 53" of drop, 10.1MOA. Velosity is 1727fps and fpe is 1112fpe
    Hornady SST 165gr 2650fps mv, 53" drop V at 500 yards, 1725 w/ 1090fpe.
    Nosler BT 168gr, same 2650mv, 51" drop, 9.8moa, V=1722fps, fpe = 1204.

    I think practical loads would be better. 90% of the .308 hunters use a 150gr.
    Remington Cor-Lokt or similar.
    150gr Core-lokt, mv 2700fps. 500 yards, V=1493fps, 743fpe and a drop of 60" or 11.5MOA. 11.5moa translates to 46 clicks on a 1/4" scope. With a 10mph cross wind it is 34" off. 5mph is a huge deal when shooting distance. The cartridges you listed are still going to be effected between 15 to 18", basicly 3moa at 500 yards. That makes for a wounded animal or a loosing target. Now the data you posted is also for a 24" barrel. Using an 18" or 20" barrel will drop the velosity further.
    Your data is sound, but nothing is fool proof.
     
  5. Apex-Predator

    Apex-Predator New Member

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    Certainly 150gr is far and away the most popular in 308, even I Mr ballistics buff use the 150gr Speer BTSP in my 308, mind you only because my rifle does not like anything in 165-168gr at all, but it will shoot 180gr Sierra Game Kings just as well as any 150gr.
     
  6. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    That is interesting. Are the 165..168 all boat tail that you have tried? I've got a few rifles that shoot certain weights better in flat base.
     
  7. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You need to stop trying to confuse this issue with facts!!!!:D
     
  8. Apex-Predator

    Apex-Predator New Member

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    Tied 165gr SST, Game Kings (HP and SP), and 168gr Ballistic Tips, with Varget, Big Game, W748, RL15 and IMR4350, thus far nothing has done any better then 1.25" at 100 yards, 150gr Speer BTSP and 180gr Game Kings both touch holes and shoot consistent 1/2 MOA groups with Varget and W748 respectively. No 165gr flat base yet but once I can get my hands on some old style Interlocks, Pro Hunters or 165gr Deep Curls I will give them a go.
     
  9. cottontop

    cottontop Guest

    Don't forget the .358 Winchester which is also in the .308 family of cartridges.
    ct
     
  10. Apex-Predator

    Apex-Predator New Member

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    Oh I like the ol 358 and even the newcomer .338 Fed but neither one of them is in any contention for any long range work, both of those are hard hitting woods rifles. Besides kinna hard to do an apples to apples comparison since I cannot get Ballistic Tips in 338 and 358 caliber.
     
  11. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    What if you did a .308, 7-08, and .260rem Using 150gr for the 1st 2 and a 140gr for the second 2, same bullet design. That would show some useable data. I find max load velocity all over the place in different loading manuals and powder manufacturers. If you're using 748 and 4350, post data you have w/ those. I use 4064 as my go to for .308. It also works well w/ 129gr and down 6.5x55 cartridges. I know this is not the reloading section, but since there are so many of us here that shoot similar cartridges, why not? I don't necessarily care about velocity when working up a load for accuracy, but knowing w/ some rifles that the action I'm using is stronger then what was tested, or the norm I'll hot rod a bit. Sometimes the accuracy is unreal. 8x57 is the perfect example. Most data shows max for a 175gr Sierra pro hunter at 45gr, 47gr, some 49gr. I've got a load at 53gr that has zero pressure signs and is very accurate. Not listing the powder for obvious reasons. When I picked up some Barnes TSX 180gr there was no data. I talked w/ the techs at Barnes and they assured me that if the 175 could be loaded w/ 53gr, so could the 180gr. They were right. I also will hot rod my '98 action 6.5x55 using '96 action data which seems to be the common data.
     
  12. Apex-Predator

    Apex-Predator New Member

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    Sadly a across the board 150gr comparison would be fruitless, 150gr bullets would be marginal in both the 6.5mm and 30 cal, too short and stubby to have great ballistics in the 308 and too long to stabilize in a low drag boat tail 6.5mm even with a 1:8 twist, those max out about 142gr.
    My 6.5x55 LOVES RL22 for 140gr bullets and RL19 for 120-130gr. I have a modern action so I can run full pressures, 46.5gr of RL22 and 48.5gr of RL19 with 120s. The most accurate load I have tested thus far was 45.5gr of RL19 and a 129gr SST loaded to 3.098" that load shoots one semi smooth hole in my Tikka T3 that measures 1/12th MOA.
     
  13. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The 358 is one of my favorite calibers for hard hitting medium range cartridges, but they are so limited in selection you just about have to have a custom built to meet your needs. I have had a Ruger 77 and BLR in 358 and wish I still had them.:(
     
  14. Apex-Predator

    Apex-Predator New Member

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    I have been itching to build a 358 Win on a Mauser action for quite some time now, a 225gr at 2400fps would be a close range wrecking machine in the woods.
     
  15. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Both of the 358's I had loved the 225 BX bullets.
     
  16. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    No, 150 in .308 and 7-08 and 140 in 7-08 and .260. BTW, I shoot 160gr RN in my 6.5x55's w/ a 1:8.5 and 1:9 twist. They stablize just fine.
    These 155gr look interesting for things that bite back!
    https://cuttingedgebullets.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=DGSC_G155_BBW_13
     
  17. Apex-Predator

    Apex-Predator New Member

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    In my 6.5x55 I am torn between the speed/trajectory of my 120gr Ballistic Tips and my deadly accurate 140gr SSTs. Both are beyond deadly on game. I get good accuracy out of my 129gr but I have yet to get impressive accuracy and speed out of the same load, might try again once the new 129gr Accubond LR hits the market. Tried 140gr VLDs that is the ONLY bullet I have yet to get to group great in my 6.5x55 everything else has shot .75" or better first time out with at leased one load.
    I have been wanting to add a 260 Rem or 6.5 Creedmore to my collection, a modern short action version of the Swede sounds great to me.
     
  18. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I too would like to get into the 6.5 arena. I have never used any of them (one of the few calibers I have not had the pleasure to experience).:)
    So many calibers, so little time!;)

    Well not completely true, I did have and experimented with a 264 Win Mag many years ago.:eek: