Having trouble making a decision.

Discussion in 'Semi-Auto Handguns' started by Fierdon, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. Fierdon

    Fierdon New Member

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    I have narrowed down my 'handgun search' to these:

    1. H&K USP .45
    2. Taurus 24/7 Pro .45
    3. Walther P99 (no .45 available, so .40S&W)
    4. Ruger P345
    5. Taurus PT-101
    6. Taurus PT1911 .45

    It makes no difference if it is Polymer or Steel. I do not, however, want an aluminum gun or aluminum frame and steel slide.

    My main concerns are:
    1. Ambidexterity. I have to shoot left handed as I am left-eye dominant.
    2. Reliability. I want to be able to disassemble it somewhat easily.
    3. Warranty. I know Taurus has lifetime, but I hear they are a pain to deal with. Not sure about the others mentioned.
    4. Price. Price I would like to stay $300 to $600 roughly, no more than $750 if it is a GREAT gun.
    5. Accuracy. This gun will be kept in my vehicle and used when I go hunting/camping.
    6. Accessories. Perhaps the ability to put a flashlight on it, as I will be keeping it on me when I go camping and it is much easier to have the flashlight on the gun when having to make a nightly run to the privy.

    I think that about sums it up.. With my lack of sleep today, I'm sure I left out a gun or two and I left my list at home =\

    Also, if anyone has any real good suggestions then I'd be more than happy to hear them.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    If it's for camping and hunting, what about a Ruger Redhawk .44 magnum? I realize it doesn't have a flashlight mount, but a .44 Mag is a great round and you can use it for hunting as well. It's also in your price range.

    Just throwing an idea out there. ;)
     

  3. Fierdon

    Fierdon New Member

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    I like the .44 Magnum Round, A friend of mine has a gun (with mounted scope) that he bought. I'm just not a huge fan of revolvers, never really liked them that much.
     
  4. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    You've listed several good guns and there are of course many others that will suit your needs here so I would just like to share a thought rather than make a recommendation .

    With the use of the word privy it suggests to me you will either be camping at a developed or semi developed campground complete with Vault outhouses and perhaps other campers there .

    I wouldn't suggest wandering around in the dark waving around your pistol with a light on it , it's strikes me much like those that use a rifle scope as a replacement for binoculars , a very bad and perhaps dangerous thing to do .

    Suppose you hear a twig snap behind you and you swing around and have an AD "Accidental discharge" being half asleep , or you simply point your gun at another camper headed for the same Privy you are ?

    I can't speak for everyone else here but if you point a loaded gun at me or a family member without cause much less discharge it one of three things is going to happen . You get your ass kicked , you get a bullet fired at you or at the very least you get to have a nice long conversation with "Johny Law" as to why you're waving a gun around in the dark walking to the bathroom when all you need is the flashlight to find your way .

    Buy two things and avoid all of the trouble 1 a modern bright flashlight and 2 a cheap Uncle Mikes Shoulder holster for about $30 and slip it on and don't worry about tying it down . You'll still have your gun with you if you need it and it will be out of the way for any "business" you have to do at the privy and you wont be waving it around , possibly at people unnecessarily .
     
  5. Fierdon

    Fierdon New Member

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    Never really thought of that.. And its not a 'developed' camp ground. Its a deer lease and there are several tent/small camper setups in the one area.. The 'privy' is out in the woods.. haha.. Hence why I keep a gun on me.. I don't like snakes and supposedly there are bobcats out there too..
     
  6. BillM

    BillM Active Member Supporter

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    Ambidexterity. I have to shoot left handed as I am left-eye dominant

    ????? I know a lot of people, including myself who shoot handguns right handed and
    are left eye dominant.

    Any particular reason there are no Glocks on your list? They meet most of your
    criteria.
     
  7. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    O ok , you see here in Missouri were have several areas owned and managed by the Conservation department that are lightly developed with those vault out houses and a few picnic tables here and there some even have the small BBQ pits on metal stands and they allow free camping in those general areas .

    I thought you had perhaps close to the same setup .

    I can tell you this for snakes you're much better off with a revolver and snake/Shotshell Loads , the shotshell loads for semiautos do not reliably cycle the action from what I have heard .

    I read what I think was a true story in a hunting/gun magazine years ago where a guy fired a regular bullet at a Rattle snake that was only a few feet away from him , he missed and the impact of the bullet on the ground actually "bounced" the snake up off the ground a couple of feet meaning a bite would be more serious because higher up on you body puts the venom that much closer to you heart and quicker to cause a reaction .

    Something like a 3-4 inch barreled 357 loaded with the first two shots shotshells and the rest 125 grain JHPs would do a bang up job on a small cat or even a Mountain Lion for defensive use .

    For a light try one of the headlamp jobs they sell at Walmart for about $20-30 , I have one I often use when working on the truck , you would be surprised how dark it is under a hood even in daylight when you're trying to do a tuneup . Get a LED bulb and never worry about dropping it or it burnong out .
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2008
  8. Fierdon

    Fierdon New Member

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    I have tried shooting right handed with my right eye and I am just no where near as accurate.

    As far as Glocks, there are so many and I really didn't feel like doing all the research for them to find out which is the 'best'.. Plus a friend of mine has a .40 (can't remember the model) I liked the way it felt (although without magazine it felt a bit.. different) but he said they (he had two) were expensive.. So that was another reason I never really looked at them..

    I never really thought of a headlamp.. haha.. Last time I went out I kept a Mag Light (small one) and held it in my mouth while I 'handled' business..

    And if I shot at a snake and it hopped up that far.. I'd probably die of a heart attack before the snake bite..
     
  9. BillM

    BillM Active Member Supporter

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    Try shooting right handed aiming with your left eye. Works fine for me, and
    I know of several others that do it that way.

    Glocks----seems like people love them or hate them. They are very much
    within your price range.

    45 ACP Glocks----Full size Model 21. Compact Model 30, Compact
    single stack Model 36. That's it---only 3 to look at.
     
  10. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Well, I haven't looked at this post yet, but it appears you are getting some really good info. Definitely get to a range that rents guns and try them out before you look at dropping any hard earned cash...

    I don't think you are going to be getting an H & K USp edition in the price range you are looking to spend. If you can, that is a nice weapon. I have the USP Tactical and it shoots very well. It's also very large in my hands, and I have big hands, so hitting the mag release with my shooting thumb is a bit of a stretch. I love the anti-recoil system it uses for the big .45 ACP round, but all in all, I think the gun is a bit much to be honest. Wanna buy it? :D

    Glocks. Definitely in your price range. Very easy to clean and maintain. Not the best product available in my opinion. I am one of the people that don't personally care for them. But, as designed, they are fine for the masses in the fact that they are cost effective, reliable ( for the most part ) and easy to learn to maintain.

    I'd cross both the Walther and the Ruger off the list personally. I don't think they are the best representatives of weapons in that caliber for the money. Person opinion only having handled them both at SHOT, but I have not fired them, so definitely check them out if you are interested.

    Taurus makes a good 1911 for the money. I think even their base model is going to be a bit more than you want to spend though. If you can find a good deal on one, it's a good gun and has good features for cash outlay. It's not top of the line, but it offers a lot of good features that cost more on other models.

    Also, get a head light like suggested. If you were wondering around with a pistol light and shown that at the wrong person, you could find yourself on the wrong end of a confrontation as indicated above. The LED ones last forever on batteries, are very durable and super light weight. Plus they are bright enough, over a spectrum around you, then a flashlight pointed in one direction.

    Good luck! Let us know what you end up liking...

    JD
     
  11. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Buy a roll of duct tape?
     
  12. Fierdon

    Fierdon New Member

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    Yeah, I just found prices on a USP, and wow.. It's a bit expensive.. As far as Glocks, the ones I held felt a bit small.. I've got big hands, but possibly the Glock 21 .45 is a good bit bigger..

    The Walther P99 isn't in .45 it is in .40 S&W not sure if ya noticed that. And I marked the Ruger off cause it has an aluminum frame and steel slide, I'd rathe a gun made of all one type metal.. I just hear that aluminum sliding against metal isn't too great.. But in a gun this could be a different story..

    I'm gonna try and read some reviews on the Taurus 24/7.. The price is pretty decent and the Lifetime Warranty is very enticing.. I'm just hoping they give good customer support as I only know of one person that had a Taurus .40S&W (my Uncle) and he sold it because his wife wanted something smaller and he preferred his Colt 1911 (love that gun!)

    I have gotten a lot of great information in this thread and on this site. I probably will wait 'til around Christmas before I buy my handgun, perhaps in October if I can get a bill paid off by then.
     
  13. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Taurus has some haters on line, and a few of them post here. They went through about 4 or 5 years ago and upgraded their production facility with CNC machines.

    The last few years, out of interest, I have checked out their new stuff at the SHOT show and they seem to be putting out a good product. There have been a couple of reviews from people who bought either the PT-1911 or the 24/7 on here in the last few months. You might want to do a search in the general pistol forum, go back a couple months worth of posts.

    I have heard that their warranty is very good, and I have heard of people having trouble. It could be a crap shoot - but from what I have seen, I do personally believe they are putting out a good quality 1911 for the price they are asking.

    JD
     
  14. JPBeck

    JPBeck New Member

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    I have a USP and I don't like shooting it because it bangs up my brass-- which is important if you ever get into reloading.

    I also have a P99 in .40--- nice gun-- well fit-- but I hate the trigger! It's 2 stage which means you pull it back half way and it locks it's self in that position, from then on out it acts like a single action. It's hard to explain-- go shoot one or just finger F one in a gun shop and you'll see what I mean. It's a stupid trigger IMHO.

    I don't have any of the other guns on your list so out of these three guns I say the PT1911 is the way to go.

    You get alot for your dollar on that PT1911-- I have one and it shoots great, eats everything I feed it and hasn't had any failures (except a squib load that was my fault). For $550 that's the one I would go with if $ was a factor-- I compare it to a SA Loaded Combat (I can do that because I own 2)-- only you don't get the night sights-- but the front grip on the PT is checkered.
    Is the SA loaded model worth an extra $300 dollars? As much as I love my SA's I'd have to say only if your the type of person that needs an iron clad warranty. I sent my my bi-tone out last week (on SA's dime) and they refinished it and sent it back to me in nine days!
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2008
  15. Fierdon

    Fierdon New Member

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    Out of the guns I listed, the only handguns I have fired before was a Colt 1911 and a Taurus .40S&W (Don't remember the name). I liked the feel and the weight of the Colt 1911 (don't like light, cheap feeling guns) but it is way out of my price range (the ones I've seen are $800+).

    I also forgot to mention, I've been a fan of 'accessorizing' or 'modifying' most of the things I own (My old car, My Jeep, My Computer, etc). Nothing drastic, but I like to be able to do or add things that makes my gun mine. If that makes any sense. I'm sure the 1911s have a wide variety of accessories and 'modifications' (match compensators, scopes, different style grips, etc) that can be done with them, but as for all other guns, I haven't a clue..
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2008
  16. BillM

    BillM Active Member Supporter

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    Yup---you can accessorize/modify/individualize a 1911 any way you want.
    BUT---a lot of that requires a gunsmith or a darned good understanding
    of the platform and some above average mechanical ability. A day job
    of "machinist" would be a plus here. If you are going to mess with 1911's,
    buy Jerry Kuhnhausen's books before you even think about doing anything to the gun.

    Glocks. I consider them the ultimate tinkerers gun. Huge aftermarket
    supply, most parts are truly "drop in". If you like doing your own work,
    screw-ups are usually a cheap fix. Yes--I'm a little partial to the plastic.
    I think I've got 7 or so at present, ranging from USPSA Production legal
    to full out Open division guns shooting 9mm at a 172 power factor.

    Bill
     
  17. Fierdon

    Fierdon New Member

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    Yeah, I've seen custom hand grips and whatnot for the 1911, I knew Glock probably had an aftermarket, but with the frames being a polymer plastic I wasn't sure how 'customizable' I could actually get one..

    And I would rather do my own work, I've done all my own work on every vehicle I've modded and just about anything else I customized, but I don't have any 'machinist' experience at all.. As far as the plastic though.. It always feels 'cheap' to me.. I mean, I can bend it and all.. I've read that Polymer is even stronger than steel, but I'm just worried about steel sliding on plastic grooves..
     
  18. BillM

    BillM Active Member Supporter

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    Part of the problem is semantics. The word plastic brings to mind something
    cheap, flimsy and probably prone to breakage.

    Call Glock's "Polymer". There----doesn't sound so cheap and shoddy does it?

    The slide to frame interface on a Glock is steel-to-steel, NOT steel to plastic.
    The grooves are in the slide, and the slide is steel with a really tough
    treatment that Glock calls Tennifer.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it you are looking for the following:

    45 ACP
    Full size gun
    Something you can customize yourself
    Primary duty of crapper security while camping
    Inexpensive

    A Glock 21 meets all of the above, but if you aren't going to shoot it
    a lot there is one other brand that is REALLY cheap (<$200) and has a
    surprising reputation for reliability.

    Let me get my Nomex suit on here and suggest:




    Hi-Point
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2008
  19. Fierdon

    Fierdon New Member

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    I have a habit of calling them 'plastic' I got my love of guns from my Uncle and he won't use any gun that is a 'polymer', Just old fashioned I guess. And I never knew that the slide.. slid.. on steel either.. It just looked as if it was sliding in a plastic groove.. The glock I did hold, I was able to bend it a bit and it made me worry because something that is made for self defense and a toy gun of mine I had when I was a kid seemed stronger, as it never would bend.

    You did get what I was looking for correctly, only other thing is, I shoot left-handed (as I think I mentioned, I'm right-handed but left-eye dominant and just found that I was more accurate shooting left handed.)

    As far as Hi-Point.. I have never heard of them. If under $200 it would be a great 'starter' pistol for me until I get a lot more practice (about the only time I shoot a gun is when I go camping, it is out in the middle of nowhere and I buy more ammo for my Uncle's gun so I can fire about a couple of clips worth of ammo). I may try and go to a local Academy or Gun Shop to see if they have any Hi-Point handguns that I can hold to see if it is comfortable enough and has ambidextrous features.

    Thanks again.
     
  20. G21.45

    G21.45 New Member

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    If you like them, you like them. I don't. H&K's different trigger systems vary with some being better than others. Personally, I like the H&K best when it's fired in single action mode.

    I do not find the USP as comfortable to fire, extensively, as the Glock G-21; (Which has a wider and consequently easier-to-handle backstrap.) but, I'm older and my hands are slightly arthritic. I can and have shot a G-21 exactly even with other shooters who were using the USP. As far as I'm concerned accuracy is very close between the two pistols. With either brand, the better pistolero is going to prevail.

    H&K magazines, other parts, and factory service are expensive. Nobody I know would leave an H&K pistol in his vehicle as you intend to do.

    By the way, it's never a good idea to leave a loaded pistol, alone, inside your vehicle. In my home state if it were stolen that could get you in a whole lot of trouble with the law; and, your CHL might be revoked.

    If you must leave a pistol unattended inside your vehicle, then, take the magazine(s) and any other ammunition away from the vehicle with you.


    You did say the pistol was going to be kept in your truck - right! OK, I'd have to say any of these would make a great, 'truck gun'; and, as long as you leave it there, there shouldn't be a problem.

    9mm, too! The only P99 worth owning is the QA model. I really wish Walther would get their frame problems straightened out. (Too many start to show cracks before they hit the 2,500 round mark!) The design and balance are very good; the company stands behind their products 100%. (If you have a serious problem, you'll get a new one for free!) I've got several friends who absolutely love their P99's; but, I didn't buy one for my wife simply because I don't think the frame is quite tough enough - YET! (I'm waiting!)

    The P345 is a tank of a pistol! It's solidly built and could easily endure (and survive) life bouncing around inside your truck. The trigger's OK, too. Not excellent, but OK. Great truck gun backed by a good company with the second best factory service in the industry. (After Smith & Wesson!)

    BillM is correct. Maybe you should look at a .... Hi-Point!


    Couldn't help, but, to notice most - if not all - of your personal requirements for a handgun would be met by a Glock. If you're getting an H&K for $750, then, it must be used!

    Taurus has a great guarantee; but, Smith & Wesson or Ruger they ain't! Glock's factory service is spotty. I've found that if you want really great service from the Glock factory, then, wait until just after the time of a new moon before you contact Smyrna tech support.

    Trust me, unless you're part of a closely organized assault team, you don't want to hang a light on the end of your pistol. Lights are great; but, if you're a lone gunman, that light belongs in your support hand. LED's have really come a long way over the past 18 months; as a matter of fact, I'm using one now when I check the farm at night; but, installed on your pistol is NOT where you want that light to be.

    Glock's frames are not plastic; they are made out of a tough industrial grade D6 polymer. The G-21's I've carried for the past 5 years have digested, somewhere between, 15 and 18 thousand rounds. My slides show silver around the muzzle; there are hairline scratches along the flats; but, the frames are (almost) pristine. I only have one small nick on one magazine well - nothing else!

    Unlike an XD, the Glock's slide travels on strictly metal-to-metal contact points. No matter the caliber, I very much doubt that a Glock's frame will wear out before reaching, at least, the 40,000 round mark. I know of 9mm Glocks that have already gone 3 or 4 times farther than this. (Or, more!)

    You can keep a Glock up and running from your garage workbench; and, 90% of the aftermarket modifications you can do yourself. I'd suggest you leave the frame alone. Stippling and other crap like that will only lessen the value. I always recommend that civilians carry their semiautomatic pistols in C-3; and, especially with a, 'truck gun' that would remain my recommendation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2008