Has there been a loss of gun safety knowledge?

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by Zachhag10, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually that is not true. MOST accidents are a result of complacency by those who use fire arms the most. Just reality. I have had several unintentional discharges in my life and they were 100% my fault because I got lax/complacent! And as a LEO I have investigated many unintentional discharges of firearms too, same conclusion!:( And if you COMPARE the #'s of death caused by TRUE 'accidents' you will see what I mean. Those who use/handle any 'machine' are more apt to make mistakes than those who seldom use/handle the same machines regardless of training. Don't get me wrong, I am 10000% for training, just not MANDATORY training, as I have trained 100's, if not 1000's, of people in armed self defense.. If you were to make training mandatory, as several states have for CC, it only puts another EXPENSIVE obstacle in the way of GOOD people being able to exercise a GOD given right! :(
     
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  2. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    What Jim says is true if one follows the reports of accidental injuries or deaths by firearm.

    Most, not all, but most happen to folks who knew better than what they did with the gun to cause the accident.

    Knock on wood I've not had a ND, or AD. But if I ever do it'll be because i got to relaxed and did something stupid that I fully know better than to do.
     

  3. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    this all fine and dandy if one assumes that Jim is the expert.

    and of course, anyone in LE is automatically assumed to be an expert in firearms. :rolleyes:

    ya'll enjoy! i'm out. :)
     
  4. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt Jim, being LE, will claim all LE are gun experts.

    My own experience is more are not gun guys than are and only shoot enough to qualify.

    There are some that shoot regularly but most normally don't past what is required.
     
  5. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually you are incorrect again.:rolleyes: Few of the LEO's I have worked with considered themselves as 'experts' when It came to fire arms. And, you are correct that some of them were not experts even though they come across that way. Some of us, like me, who live and breath fire arms were and still are considered to be an 'expert' in the field. I do not calm to 'know it all' but I know a lot more than most when it comes to fire arms. Like I have said here MANY times. I give advise to those who wish to consider it. If you doubt my credibility I really do not care. It is, after all, the individuals decision on whose advise they wish to take! :)
    MERRY CHRISTMAS all!
     
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  6. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So, you'll admit to being an unknown drip, under pressure? (Unknown algebraic quantity = X, Spurt + A leak, under pressure.) :p
     
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  7. sheriffjohn

    sheriffjohn Active Member

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    Complacency is probably the one most frequent contributing factor I've witnessed in firearms injuries, especially with officer-involved AD's. When shooting on a range, we are (or should be) focused entirely on firearms safety. On the job, multi-tasking, sometimes in stressful situations, officers get safety sidetracked occasionally. As was pointed out earlier, when firearms are carried all day, every day, as part of our job, you can get lax - even with the best of continuous training. Three of my LE friends lost children to complacency as to off-duty storage of duty weapons. Two to accidents, one to suicide. Safety isn't just about control of firearms when it's in your immediate possession, but also about when they are not. All three were the kids of officers with decades of LE careers and all three knew better than to leave guns in the home unsecured when they were not home. Just saying ...
     
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  8. Balota

    Balota ... but I used to play keyboards. Staff Member

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    I always prefer that definition ...
     
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  9. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    When America was mostly rural, except in one or two states, guns were as much a way of life as a team of horses, a hoe or a, tractor.

    Kids grew up with guns, knew how to handle and use them at an early age.

    As things began to become more urban these same folks moving into the cities already knew all about handling and using guns. Their generation was raised in a gun culture.

    Move forward a couple of generations. Gun control, eliminated the true gun culture in big cities and that knowledge like many other rural skills were lost to those kids being raised basically by government over sight and over reach.

    Now we have a resurgence of people wanting to be armed, but never were exposed to a normal upbringing where SD and gun usage were a normal part of life.

    So yes there has been a dumbing down on the subject of guns in general. On purpose.
    But removing the laws that caused this dumbing down is the answer. Not passing another unconstitutional gun regulation like mandatory training.

    JMO
     
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  10. Missouribound

    Missouribound Well-Known Member

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    Very well said and true. Now go back a generation or two and it wasn't uncommon for high schoolers to have a gun rack in their pickup truck at school. There were shooting clubs and often these teens would go shoot after school. Perfectly normal activity for youths.
    Liberalism has changed the meaning of normal.
     
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  11. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    have to agree. even in NY, it was not uncommon for the upperclassmen to either have a rifle, bow, or shotgun with during hunting season, so long as it was kept out of sight. granted, it wasn't legal per say (Read: At All), and I never did so myself (My cousin lived about 3 blocks from the HS, so i'd drop it off at her place on the way in, and pick it up on the way out), many od the students in that rural district did have one in the trunk, or in a rack on the back of the truck's seat.

    Hell, one SD over, they closed school on opening day of firearm big game season, as most of the mybe 35 seniors would all get 'sick" that day, and come back perfectly fine the next. funny how that always seemed to happen.

    As to teams in the shooting sports, even back in the 60s, when my parents, aunts, and uncles were in school, all attempts to start a shooting related sports team were met with stern nos. And that was with a club willing to host them, 2 teachers willing to be coaches, and a well laid of plan for starting the team, and other schools that would follow suit, if one were started, within the zone.

    But, there are a few Hs shooting teams in NY, just not in that area, which is part of the Buffalo region.

    when we lived in NC, dad was on his last couple years in the Corps, had made E9, and had personal time to burn, so he would go home early, change, grab my gear, load up the ammo and shotguns, or the .22s, in the truck, and park down on the bus end at Swansboro HS, so we could head down 24, and hit the state game lands after I got out.

    in both places, no one got shot, no one died, and fun was had, by all involved, as he wasn't the only one to do that regularly.

    now, we did have 2 incidents where students did bring handguns into the school, and LE was involved. Both times the party doing so was arrested and charged under the Sullivan Act, and in both cases, they were members of the local Indian tribe, who also dealt on the side. Someone had a beef with someone else, and decided to take the chicken $#!+ way out, rather than take it out behind the bus garage, which only helped to make the rest of us that did have firearms, and knew how to safely and responsebly use them, get pulled in the office for wearing hunting and shooting related shirts, jackets, and other gear.

    i got pulled in one day, over my NRA shirt, and was told to go to the nurse's office to get a shirt from her, to wear instead.

    one of the few times in my life that I ever straight up told someone in an authority position to go outside, and play hide and go F#@% them self. (Literally)

    Parents got called, showed up, and told about it, as well as that I was going to be in ISS for the rest of the week, and that I had refused an order. Dad and mom's reply "No. He won't."

    Spent the rest of the week at home instead, and when I was told to go to ISS again upon my return, they came up, and informed the superintendant as to what was going on, and he told the principal to drop it.

    yes, back then it was a different world, depending on where you lived. not much has changed in the little town in Western NY from now to then though.

    As to my parent's take on it, they didn't really like the fact that I said what I did, but they got why. At least that was mom's take on it. Dad's was a bit different, as all he said was:

    "I would have done the same d@mn thing in your shoes."
     
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  12. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thus who 'grew up' hunting and/or shooting, as a general rule, were/are more responsible and respectable people then those who did not. Just an observation of someone who has been dealing DIRECTLY with the masses my whole life! ;)
     
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  13. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Here we have school skeet shooting teams that compete.
    It was, started up a few yrs ago by a couple of skeet shooters and a Demcrat Senator.

    It has proven to be the safest school sport that exists here with 0 injuries.
     
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  14. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    No. Ownership of guns is more common than ever . And : No, the NRA doesn't advocate everyone owning a gun .
    You say the NRA should promote free gun safety classes . If you expect the NRA to use its members' money to provide free training for everybody's kids, I think you are being unreasonable . It is always easy to give away someone else's money . The NRA does plenty to educate the public, which you may not know if you haven't joined the NRA yet .
    Instead of complaining about the NRA, why don't you join the Appleseed Project or volunteer to help out at youth events by teaching safety ?
    And , Hell no ! The government has no right to require anyone to attend a gun safety class . It is called freedom .
    Your prediction of disaster if nationwide concealed carry passes is based on what ? Nothing ! Similar predictions were made when Florida became a " shall issue " state and the disaster never materialized .
     
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  15. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    No one assumed Jim was right . Some simply agreed he was right .
     
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  16. aarondhgraham

    aarondhgraham Active Member

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    Hello Rentacop:

    Just so you know,,,
    I've been an NRA member for over 30 years.
    I do assist and help out with Boy Scouts and 4-F shooting programs.
    I have introduced several dozen college kids from my university to shooting and continue to do so every semester.

    My opinion on some form of mandatory training is based on what I see in my daily life.

    There were always uneducated/unqualified people with guns in the past,,,
    But in modern times the chances of each person you see with a gun being one of them is greater.
    Often the new gun owners are the first in 2-3 generations and they simply don't know they are ignorant about law and safety.

    So flame me and disagree with my opinions if you so desire,,,
    But don't make any assumptions about my commitment to furthering and maintaining the 2A.

    So far you've been wrong on all counts.

    Aarond

    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  17. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    People who would never buy a basketball and expect to be admitted to the NBA will buy a gun and think they are an off the shelf expert.
     
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  18. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we can find some common ground here .
    Maybe we can all agree that it would be nice if the high schools taught firearms safety to all of the students instead of breeding hoplophobia .
    No doubt we have all seen too many unsafe people on gun ranges . Certainly we don't want the image of the shooting sports to be formed from " Idiots With Guns " videos on YouTube .
    We may differ when it comes to improving safety . Can we all agree that formal training is something everyone should get ?
    Should a gun range always have a range safety officer on duty ?
    Should gun ranges require customers to watch a short safety video before being allowed to use the range ?
    I see old experienced shooters sweep other, set guns down pointed sideways instead of downrange, walk down to check targets while others are shooting etc.
    Every kind of shooter is the problem, right ?
    When I take new people out to shoot, I tell them this , " What you are getting today is 'familiarization' , not 'training ' . I will teach you enough to be safe on a range and hit a target . That will make it fun . Do not go away believing that you have been trained with a firearm . Take formal instruction some time . "
     
  19. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    I can agree with most of that as long as none of it is required.
     
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  20. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Only in your progressive world, not in the real world!!!;)
     
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