Happy Birthday!

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by Dillinger, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    Happy Birthday President Lincoln!

    In spite of your best efforts, we have seen fit to try and drive the country you loved so much into the ground.

    BUT, there are plenty of good, strong backed members of this forum here to make sure it doesn't go out whimpering like a little girl with a skinned knee.

    My only hope is that we are enough...

    JD
     
  2. bobbyb13

    bobbyb13 New Member

    639
    0
    0
    Despite our conflicts

    Honored to know you through my studies. We are trying to uphold the nation you loved, and help create. RIP
     

  3. user4

    user4 New Member

    3,414
    1
    0
    I am aghast at the history taught to you both... Clearly it is true that the victors write the history books.

    Eff Lincoln and his division of the country and the subsequent murder of Americans. His abolitionist views were political, not moral. Much like how the Dems of today claim to be the protectors of the working class. It's total BS.

    Now, let's move this thread to the political forum and have it out! ;)
     
  4. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    You're from the South aren't you.

    It's okay. We understand. :p

    It's not meant to be political, I was wishing the guy a happy birthday.

    And I truly believe the world was a better place for men of all color after Lincoln, as evident by the fact that today we have a person of color as President.

    That being said, he was hardly a Saint. I never implied such.

    JD
     
  5. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

    10,888
    1
    0
    Had those money grubbing and power hungry land owners down there just gone ahead and accepted their fate and paid the shipping duties and kept their mouths shut, then the "Fugitive Slave Law" would have never been repealed. ;)
     
  6. bkt

    bkt New Member

    6,964
    0
    0
    I grew up and went to school in the north. All the textbooks praised Lincoln as a genius who suffered terribly through the civil war given that he cared so much for every American; he only wanted to hold the country together and was warring against those who wanted to perpetuate slavery.

    In grade school, we learned the Civil War was about slavery. That's it.

    In high school, we were taught the south used some vague trade and financial issues as an excuse to wage war, but it was still really just all about slavery.

    It has not been until relatively recently that I have learned a thing or two not taught in my history books. My opinion of President Lincoln is no where near as high as it once was, and I lean toward Ineffable's p.o.v.

    The war is properly called the War of 1861 or the War of Northern Aggression, for it was not a civil war. The southern states worked diligently to get the government to listen to their plight, but they met with no success being either placated with meaningless words, ignored outright or denigrated. When they were left with no other choice but to secede -- much as the original 13 colonies were after their pleas to King George III were ignored -- Lincoln became the first American Emperor.

    The southern states had no desire to conquer Washington and take over the country; they wished to split from the United States altogether. Hence the difference between a war for independence and a civil war. But Lincoln saw to it our own government would rain hell on the people of any state who believe their government is not acting in their best interests; he set the precedent that the full might of the United States military forces may be used against Americans to quell the people of a state who wish to peacefully break from the union.

    There are certainly many more pieces of this puzzle I haven't put together yet, and it may well be that he took the best course of action. And if that turns out to be the case, I'll apologize publicly for my rants about Lincoln.

    But in the meantime, I'll let this date pass as just another day.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  7. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

    10,888
    1
    0
    I had an African-American Professor for a college mid-American history class. His premise was that the Southern land owners did not like the rising shipping costs of their goods (tobacco, cotton, corn and the like). The Northern Shipping Magnates were pressing for duties and tarrifs. It was a power struggle. Slavery was nothing but a tool of a issue. Once the Northern interest controlled Congress decided to ok laws restricting civil liberties in the name of unity, the Southern States decided to take drastic action to prove a point.

    I am in no way a scolar of those times, and there's much I did not get from that Professor (other than a 'C'), it was eye opening to think of the war being about anything other than slavery. Polliticians were crooks then, and they are now. Waaayyy too many Americans died, and in a way, stifled our 'readiness' for subsequent foreign conflicts.

    The only good things that came out of the 1860's is the rifled barrel and the repeater, imo.
     
  8. Quis custodiet

    Quis custodiet New Member

    27
    0
    0
    Abe Lincoln was not the only controversial figure born on Feb 12, 1809.

    Charles Darwin shares the same birthdate and also turns 200 today.
     
  9. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

    10,888
    1
    0
    How's Darwin controversial. All he did was document support of his thesis. Lincoln documented nothing. :eek:
     
  10. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

    13,934
    3
    0
    I think everyone above is in one way or another slightly right.

    Lincoln if you look at pictures was depressed deeply during the war. Look at pictures from before to during then to after you will se big change in his physical appearance and in the look in his eyes. He didn't want the way he hated the war. But he knew that the country could not survive if the south split from the union. Everything was too codependent at the time. So you should thank your lucky stars he did what he did or else we would all be talking like the brits and have bad teeth.

    This is coming from a guy that had 3 A’s in American History and had the history prof telling him to switch majors.

    Slavery really had nothing to do with the war at all it was used as a pawn.

    If you want to do some good self study. Try looking for Dr. Charles Errico books on early American history.

    Take Columbus for example we are taught that he was some nice guy that was looking for a trade route. When in reality he was really a ruthless rapist, murder, and killer of small children.

    Columbus and his men would kill children for crying or making noise. The death would most of the time come from being thrown in to pits with two of their hungry dogs. The men would laugh and cheer as the infants were torn apart and eaten by the dogs. Within 1 year of landing on the island ( I think is Cuba but I forget) they had killed 90% of the native population. They had burned the fields and totally decimated the landscape looking for GOLD. By the time he made his third trip he was totally nuts I mean off his rocker. From sickness and who knows what else.
     
  11. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

    10,888
    1
    0
    Dang, Tango, which ultra-liberal university did you attend? Columbus first landed in the US Virgin Islands area. Then, he killed the natives. Lincoln did suffer from depression, and some suspect the clap, or was it the drip?

    Anyhoo, I did actually learn tons from that prof in that class. I earned the 'C' by missing enough lectures to warrant it (why some profs down grade based on attendance is stupid-pay for the class, hand in all work, and pass tests and blue book finals=acutal grade-miss 5 classes and 1 grade down sucks!)
    This guy would not allow recordings of his lectures, as he authored a few books and actually made $ with them.

    1st day he had all write a 2 page essay on the "War Between the States". Small class (maybe 20) meant he read them all right there and graded them in front of everyone. Gave me a 'C+' with a "Nice Try" notation. Then he started with the REAL stuff. I think every jaw was agape for 'bout 1/2 hour. :eek:
     
  12. user4

    user4 New Member

    3,414
    1
    0
    Umm...hello? All of New England fits that description, and I am damned sure the whole country would be better off without them.