Hand to hand questions

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by beastmode986, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. beastmode986

    beastmode986 New Member

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    Well not entirely, I hope this is the right section. I have a few questions on what one would do in a few situations.

    Situation 1- You have a few months (6-8) experience in krav mag or kali, but little or no experience in knife fighting.

    You are in some "empty" house and your doing cqb and all you have is a fixed blade knife Ka-Bar style. You walk in a room and someone comes at you with a knife, Do you A pull your knife and fight or B try to use the knife disarming skills you learned in your martial arts training?

    scenario 2
    You were just in battle and your weapon is dry and you seek cover in a seemingly empty building, a enemy combatant or soldier comes at you but he's unarmed and all you have is a empty gun and your knife. Do you pull your knife and fight or keep it in its sheath because the guy could possibly take it from you or try beating him with your rifle??

    Odd questions but it kind of got me thinking, is it better to use your fists or a knife you dont know how to fight with? Is it better to leave a knife out of a fight because you could lose it, or pull it to give you an "advantage"?


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  2. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    well a couple of things to think about. outside of a few very specially trained individuals, most of what you see or hear about knifefighting is mostly crap.

    if you are to the point that you are down to nothing more than a knife to defend yourself, accept the fact that even if you win the fight, you are probably more than likely going to still get cut or injured in that fight.

    quite possibly, if instead of using the knife, the prudent and more logical solution may be to retreat if possible. simply put, even if your opponent dies first and you bleed out hours later, did you really win the fight?

    personally i would never resort to a knife or trying to disarm someone with a knife unless i had simply no other options left to take. IMO, it's simply a foolish endeavor that has the potential for disaster if trying to survive.
     

  3. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Real world answer: I would not be doing cqb with only a knife. Especially one still in the sheath. Plus that puts me as the aggressor as I do not have the authority to be doing CQB except in my home. And in my home, I have a few firearms loaded so I don't need the knife.

    Real world answer: The rifle pointed at you, whether empty or loaded looks loaded when pointed at your head.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  4. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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  5. BigB

    BigB New Member

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    Close Quarter Battle.
     
  6. seancslaughter

    seancslaughter New Member

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    Ok what my knife fighting instructor always said that "the most dangerous person to knife fight with is an inexperienced one as they are wildly unpredictable" In all actuality if your fighting with knives you are going to get cut almost 99% of the time. I don't know Krav Maga, but I do know mechanically applied control holds and Army combatives and I would still only tangle with a guy with a knife as an absolute last resort. If I have an empty rifle and he has a knife I am going to beat his brains in thats for sure I just have to be careful about it and tire him out while keeping him at bay with my longer reach.
     
  7. Airborne1

    Airborne1 Member

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    I second that!
     
  8. FrontierTCB

    FrontierTCB Active Member

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    Most people are not extremely informed when it comes to blade combat.

    That is one of the reasons you hear of murders where victim is "stabbed over 37 times" or something similar. The common answer is "it was a crime of passion or evil". Not always the case. When the killers technique was learned from watching Friday the 13th, it may take 37 little stab holes for the person to bleed enough to lose consciousness.

    The most important thing in a fight is position. It is hard to gain favorable position while flailing a knife with one hand. I would recommend gaining control of opponent then going for your knife. Target main arteries in, neck, inner thigh, inner arms. It does not take a large butcher knife with 12" blade to be effective. A small tactical folder is enough.

    One deep cut is better than 10 superficial slices. Remember that slicing muscles and tendons in a forearm will make it impossible to grip with that hand. Good for you, bad for them.




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    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  9. nchunt101

    nchunt101 New Member

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    If I ever find myself in a situation where all I have is a knife for protection things have gone very wrong indeed. I make it a point to carry enough cartridges to go "pew pew pew pew pew" a very long time.
     
  10. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    I would try to avoid revealing my blade, in any event.
     
  11. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i'll second the second!:p
     
  12. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    The #1 rule of knife fighting is accept that you WILL get cut. Minimizing the damage is key. CQB with only a knife is akin to doig a brake job on a car with only a crescent wrench. It can be done, but there will be blood.

    An empty rifle makes a handy club. Keeping the agressor away is one of the best ways to avoid geting cut. I would never drop a long gun to defend myself from an edged weapon attack.

    While we are on the subject; My philosophy about dealing with an attacker armed with an edged weapon is to shoot to the pelvis. Break the pelvis, break down the structure, severely limit the attacker's mobility. He may crawl after you and try to cut you, but a simple perforation of the brain pan will end that.
     
  13. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    No, you choose option C and run the hell away if you can. If option C doesn't work, then you use option A. On a more personal note, if I go into an empty house to practice CQB skills, I make sure option D is available. Option D involves using a 9MM Glock to convince said attacker that option A and option B aren't going to happen.

    In this scenario, you make sure at least one of your friends still has a full magazine. Be sure to thank your friend for remembering to bring extra ammo and buy him a beer after he saves your rear end from your own stupid decisions about how much ammo to bring. If you don't have any friends left, give your plan of attack a good mulling over. Better luck next time.

    On a more personal note, if your rifle is empty you no longer need it, you need a substitute or more magazines. See option D from Scenario 1. Magazines weigh about a pound. A Ka-Bar and sheath weigh about a pound.

    No professional fighter ever said, "I think I'll take this guy on with my bare hands when I have a perfectly good weapon." It looks really cool in the movies, but real life doesn't work that way. If someone is well trained enough to relieve you of your knife, do you think you're going to fare much better with just your hands and feet?

    If you have a rifle, that's always Option A. If not, the pistol is Option B. Options C and D are generally very nasty and very dangerous, irrespective of how much you know about knives or unarmed combat.

    Not that it matters much from a soldier's perspective because he generally doesn't have any say in what he will or will not carry, but the Ka-Bar and other so-called fighting knives are actually utility tools that can be pressed into service as weapons.

    A small folder with a thin pointed blade is a fighting knife. Anyone using a utility tool against someone with enough training and knowledge about what he's doing will quickly find out, and not in a good way, that utility tools aren't particularly good weapons.

    As soon as possible, get some more training with the knife and your hands and feet, but realize that those are for when you can't run away and you don't have access to a firearm.
     
  14. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    If you think you're a pretty fast and capable fighter, give a young teenage girl a magic marker, wear a white T-Shirt, and tell her to try to mark up your T-shirt as many times as she can before you take the magic marker away from her.

    If you don't have a daughter, your wife or girlfriend will do.

    The point to the exercise, is that even your own daughter, someone who ostensibly is not out for blood (unless of course you limited her talk time or texting) and loves you, will ruin that nice new white T-shirt in very short order.

    If you want to add just a dash of realism to the exercise, chalk up some blunted training knives, go at it with a man of comparable skill/strength/speed, and see how many marks you have on you after about a twenty seconds. Then ask yourself how long you would still be breathing if he had a real knife in his hands and you went at at for the same twenty seconds.

    Remember that you need a working hand and arm to hold a knife with. Those are generally the first things that get chalked up.
     
  15. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    A small thin folder is usually a liner lock and rather fragile. There is no room for a thumb stud, so the knife needs to be spring assisted, which is illegal in many locations. An illegal knife that might fold up on your hand or break is not a fighting tool.

    You want a fixed blade knife that you can hit a rib bone without breaking the knife. Caping knives are very handy as a weapon. A caping knife is legal in most areas and it is durable. Caping knifes are drop points so they are good slashers. A caping knife is sturdy enough to break a car window. If a knife will break a car window it will do some serious damage to the human skull.
     
  16. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    JD, maybe you can tell us about some of the knife fights you have been in, and maybe where you got some of your knife fighting skills from.

    maybe you would like to share with us how to gain these skills, and share some of your past experiances and how we can learn like you did.
     
  17. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    It's a weapon, not a utility tool. There's a difference. Nobody said anything about using illegal knives, either.

    The type of knife you use is far less important than knowing how to use a knife. All I attempted to point out is that a utility tool is not equivalent to something that was designed as a weapon and, while a kitchen knife can certainly be used as one, wasn't designed as one.

    A thin, light, sharp blade, a few inches in length at most, is all that's needed.

    If you get into a knife fight with a car window, that might be something to consider. Assuming you're gonna fight humans with your knife, if you get close enough to someone to smash their skull in, and since you're using a knife, you might want to consider sticking it in their neck. Just a thought.
     
  18. Steel_Talon

    Steel_Talon New Member

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    Scenario #1 Correct application is to RUN....

    Scenario # 2 Refer to Scenario #1
     
  19. Steel_Talon

    Steel_Talon New Member

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    To add...
    A couple of basic concepts that should be your goal in a h2h battle.. Try and control the attackers knife hand,then create a bit of space to allow you to deploy your available tools, be it a carbine, pistol, or knife. ie shoot the mother off of you.. Overwhelming violence of action is crucial for your survival.

    Also seek out training if you have interest Silat is a great base...
     
  20. SRK97

    SRK97 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If that empty rifle happens to be a mosin nagant you have one hell of a club :)

    mammas dont let your cowboys grow up to be babies
    better dead than red