Hand Loads for self defence

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by J T Patriot, Mar 7, 2010.

  1. J T Patriot

    J T Patriot New Member

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    Im pretty new around here so Ill ask forgiveness in advance if this topic has been over discussed.
    In reading some threads it seemed to me that some were contending that hand loads should not be carried and or used for self defense. I make better ammo than can be bought. That is one of the reasons I do it. Have I misunderstood something?
     
  2. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people believe that a prosecuter would accuse them of making man killer rounds. I feel like any round is a man killer. I carry hand loads too. Anything I use for SD is carefully checked and each charge is weighed individually. It test any SD round for reliability. 100 rounds without a single failure of any kind before I trust it. I think ammunition shortages is a good enough reason to carry hand loads should anyone ask.
     

  3. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    There are two ways I think about it.

    1. I am not taking a chance with a lawyer they are scum and snakes. They will do anything to win a case that is their job.

    2. There is nothing I can do to increase performance of the round over a good SD round like Hornady XTP or TAP. Many of the factory loads today are running special blended powders that increase performance without raising pressures above specs. There is a lot of science put into todays performance ammunition and performance bullets.

    There are millions of CCW that do as Rick does and create their own SD ammo. I will just stick to what I feel is best for me and mine. You should do the same.
     
  4. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    I'm with tango. I carry a high quality factory loaded SD round in my carry weapon. I do not want to take the chance that some idiot lawyer could claim I created the ammo with a desire to kill someone. The ammo I carry can be purchased freely at a number of places by anyone of legal age.
     
  5. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    For daily carry, use factory ammo. It is not that expensive and you will not be shooting 3-400 rounds in SD a year. If you actually shoot 1 round in a lifetime, you will be the exception. The carry ammo should be rotated and shot up once every year or two depending on climate and carry conditions.

    You can load factory duplication loads for practice. I they get accidentally mixed in with the actual factory stuff, there shouldnot be a huge issue.

    Will a personal injury lawyer make an issue of the ammo in the event you do have to shoot? Of course. That's what they do. They will make an issue of EVERYTHING down to the color of your socks you chose to wear that day.

    Prosecutors are a different breed, thankfully. Only the exceptionally scummy D/A will delve that deeply. A good shoot is a good shoot regardless of the ammo used.
     
  6. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes we are left with no choice. I carry factory loads in my 40 , my 357 and in my 9 when I carry them. But I have a 380 that I carry when I have to be totally discrete. I have never seen a box of 380 SD ammo in my town. It's like the proverbial Unicorn. So many people are carrying it, it simply can not be found. Good defensive 45 is hard to come by here too. Heck, I didn't see a box of 22 for about 8 months after the election.

    In case you are wondering all of my carry guns operate the same way. Draw and pull the trigger. And a bunch of them even work in the same holster. I do not get confused by carrying different weapons. The only one that is different is my 1911.
     
  7. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I can see both sides. I dont think its worth getting rude or insulting each other over. This is a brotherhood. Isn't it?
     
  8. SHAMUSPI

    SHAMUSPI New Member

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    WALTERGA: Apparently you have not studied under Massad Ayoob. I have, and IMHO you are wrong. In a world of life and death, I hope my speelng is okay.
     
  9. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    As long as you are involved in a "good legal shoot" and your rounds aren't dipped in cyanide poison, have exploding tips, or are something engineered to be different from a normal bullet, one should be fine if litigation results.

    Prosecuting and personal defense lawyers will do, and say anything to defend their clients, that's what they get paid for. I see no difference in using reloads with the same grain loads of factory loads for SD or using + p ammo, although factory ammo may be more reliable, in some cases. It's just personal preference.

    Walter, why do you feel that you have to personally attack a forum member, as opposed to just stating your opinion? It was uncalled for sir.

    I see nothing wrong with the statements and opinions Tango presented. He stated at the end that...

    "There are millions of CCW that do as Rick does and create their own SD ammo. I will just stick to what I feel is best for me and mine. You should do the same."

    I see no personal attack here, just a personal opinion.

    Jack
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
  10. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    Dear IGETEVEN,

    I watched a rerun of myth busters last night. I am sorry to inform you, but they proved that you can indeed polish poop.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
     
  11. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    LOL...knock yourself out then. :D

    I do not know of many HERE that would indulge in that venturous art form, but If they do, I hope they wear gloves and wash their hands very well afterwards. :p

    It's just a figure of military speech. The turds I am talking about walk on two legs and spout BS. ;)

    Damn...guess I will have to change my sig line.

    Jack
     
  12. hillbilly68

    hillbilly68 New Member

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    Count yourself lucky Im not a mod, Id bounce you for this one. Not the first time I have noticed the nature of your comments. What I enjoy about this forum vice some of the others I am a member of is we tend to be a more mature crowd; no keyboard commandos, no personal attacks from the safety of their extra large Cheeto-stained Avatar T shirt filled easy chair.
    I think you owe the man an apology.
     
  13. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Not sure what your getting at. If you would please read. I said that I will stick to a good high quality factory load, and that many load their own.

    Am I not entitled to think this way? If to think that a lawyer may try something sneaky and underhanded is placing myself in the lowest social class then Oh well and so be it. I have found that many in the upper crust are stuck up snobs that need to have their teeth kick in with a good pair of redwing steel toe work boots.

    That again is just me YMMV.

    I am sorry to have offended you and, I will now leave the board forever and cry myself to sleep because some internet know it all said something mean to me.
     
  14. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    I think we should all back down. . . apparently old Walt is a judicial expert, English professor, master hand-gunner, re-loader and scientist. That's a pretty extensive resume. None of us will ever be able to fill those shoes. :eek:
     
  15. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    +1.

    nothing else need be said on the topic.



    (it also seems Walter isnt around anymore......)
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
  16. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I knew what your sig was about. I just thought that was the funniest thing I had seen in quite a while. It's amazing what two guys with a tv show and too much time on their hands can come up with. LOL
     
  17. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    Pissing match aside, there is no LEGAL reason not to use hand loads for self defense. When it comes to criminal prosecution, it doesn't matter if you kill someone with a chainsaw or beat them to death with a feather pillow, justifiable is justifiable.

    Reloads will cause issues for you in the ensuing CIVIL case for wrongful death, which will be filed by the family of the deceased. The burden is significantly different than in a criminal trial.
     
  18. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Well, I see this thread went nuclear with what is clearly two sides of the same coin.....

    Was the shoot justified?!

    Yes or No.

    If it's Yes, it doesn't matter what you were carrying in the magazine.

    If it's No, it doesn't matter what you were carrying in the magazine.

    Now, as my brother Jeep has pointed out, the problem really comes in the CIVIL portion of the case.

    I give you a little glimpse into the courtroom banter:

    Lawyer: "So, Mr. Tango, even though your local P.D, the FBI and even the Mighty Texas Rangers carry brand XYZ, you felt the need to hand load your own cartridges"

    Tango ( Stifles his immediate response to jump across the railing and choke said scumbag lawyer ): "Well, I am a reloader and I reload for all my firearms. I have been doing it for 20 years and I trust my work"

    Lawyer: "So, because of ALL your expertise, you believe that you should be reloading for EVERY department in the US. That seems reasonable to you, does it?!?"

    Tango ( red in the face, BP is up, this lawyer is going to get a parking garage visit ): "Did I say that to you? I said I reload for all my weapons and this weapon is one of them. You just don't listen, do you?! I bet you are not listening to the kids you touch at nights and on weekends, do you?! I bet you aren't listening to your family either, which is why your woman is out right now trying to get a piece of c*ck"

    Lawyer: Your Honor, clearly I have made my point....

    Tango: That's it, I knew it, this effing douchebag touches kids and now he is trying ti divert the facts.....

    Tango then leaps over the railing and attacks the attorney for the "victim", which does nothing for his defense, but clearly demostrates why reloads are dangerous and that Tango is not to be messed with in upper BS Lawyer speak....

    I'm just saying. Reloads open you up to why YOU don't use the same ammo that the local PD uses.

    Why would you use anything OTHER than what the PD, who is in probably 100 times more shootings than you will EVER be, uses and is issued by their department, who no doubt went through their PAID LAWYERS????

    JD
     
  19. J T Patriot

    J T Patriot New Member

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    Sorry, I didnt mean to start a brawl then sneak out the back door. I understand the debate.
     
  20. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    You are fine brother. Sometimes these discussions need to be had for a lot of people to read.

    Nothing to worry about with this thread JT.

    All is good.

    JD