[dango]

I obviouslly made some leathal mistakes with my ecounters.How well would we all fare in similar situations ?How many of you,my brothers and sisters in arms,could instinctually pull that trigger? I pose this question to the every day people (-like myself-) not the profesional ,(-cop or military man-),but the responsable typical gun owners out there ? I personally learned that ,that offensive posture that served me so well in my youth,had become some-what filed away in some obscure vague file in my past.I really nead to refocus on details and attitude!!! Target shooting is not enough. LOOKING FORWARD TO THE RESPONSES!

 

[RL357Mag]

Nobody can truly answer that question until faced with a conflict. I believe every gun owner feels he would make the right decisions and behave in the prescribed fashion, but hypotheticals and real-life are two very different things. As you eluded to, getting older is generally accompanied by a toning down of the youthful bullet-proof and "take no sh!t" mentality, which in most cases is a good thing - but in a self-defense scenario can get you killed, especially today in a soiciety filled with moral depravity and little regard for life. I don't practice as much as I know I should, but I have owned the same handguns for over 15 years and have put several thousand rounds downrange. I may not be quick enough to outdraw a determined gunman, but having a CCW and being familiar with my guns still gives me a feeling of security which few non permit holders have. At this point in my life, and always thinking about the preponderance of attorneys and DA's who make their livings from prosecuting law abiding gun owners, I may hesitate too long before pulling the trigger, but I will never hesitate to draw my gun and make my intentions known. If I was defending my kids or someone else's, I would not hesitate for a second. Years ago I would have shot first and asked questions later in all situations. Unfortunately in todays world, self defense happens twice - the first time with your attacker, the second time in court. One thing is certain from reading hundreds of accounts over the years - if you are facing an armed attacker - kill him.

 

[BigO01]

I personally have no qualms about shooting a person if they deserve it and if they die so be it .

I don't play "Gun games" , I don't run around running my mouth with how "I'll Kill you" or "kick your azz" bla bla bla , I've known people who do and after the umpteenth time of hearing it I've often dared them to try , haven't had any takers yet and they usually STHU afterwords .

I've lived what has to be a very unusual life that has given me a very interesting perspective on many things and an appreciation for life not just breathing but the quality of life itself .

At the age of 6 in a racially divided neighborhood in the late 60's early 70's I had the living Chit beat out of me at school by 2 15+ Year olds just because I was white and they black , I had a teacher who was so afraid of what was going on with the violence she refused to even let me go to the nurse despite a bloody mouth , nose and black eye and my clothing almost being torn off of me to the point my mother had to throw them away I was forced to sit in my seat and cry and bleed for 3 hours until school let out . It's hard to be a rebel and ignore authority figures when you're 6 and just had the crap beaten out of you .

I've been mugged several times all before the age of 10 and knifed once over a bag of $0.25 potato chips , I've had robbery attempts "Stealing my brand new bike with me riding it by a pack of animals" countless times .

As an adult and lawful gun owner I have had twice groups of punks think they were going to have their brand of "Fun" with me and after verbal warnings they got within 15-20' of me with clubs and baseball bats so they found out what the muzzle of a pistol looked like , I doubt they ever understood how close they were to being shot .

I have never forgotten one thing that all of the incidents had in common , they were all smiling and laughing having a grand old time even when beating severely for no reason .

The sheep out there don't quite understand this , the animals enjoy inflicting the pain they do , they feed on it , they need it , and no amount of reason will stop them NEVER .

It's your life you can allow some scum to end it laughing and having a good old time or you can fight back .

Fact of the matter is when they see you're willing to fight back most of them will run away crying like the cowards they are if they don't have no remorse if you end their life because they would surely end yours and never spend a second regretting it unless they get caught and are made to pay for it in some manner .

 

[JPBeck]

Not trying to be macho or anything-- but I'd have to say I would do what I had to do in order to protect myself and or my family. If I felt my life was in danger and I felt I had no other options, I'd do whatever any reasonable person would do, I'd do whatever I had to do, I'd regret nothing if someone was threatening my family's or my life.

The trick is to not look like a sheep-- situational awareness is what has kept me out of trouble and I hope that it continues to do so. I'm not claiming to know it all but the best lessons I've learned from the defensive training classes taken is situational awareness-- shooting is secondary.

So to answer your question in one line-- If I had no other course of action, I'd have no problems doing what any reasonable person would do to protect myself and or my family.

 

[matt g]

The trick is to not look like a sheep-- situational awareness is what has kept me out of trouble and I hope that it continues to do so. I'm not claiming to know it all but the best lessons I've learned from the defensive training classes taken is situational awareness-- shooting is secondary.

This is by far one of the most intelligent things that I've read on this forum.

Knowing what is happening around you will allow you to GTFO before things get bad. 99% of the time, if you bail when your spidey senses start to tingle, you can avoid a situation that requires using a firearm and ultimately drag your family/friends out of a situation that may cause someone to become a casualty.

 

[Dillinger]

The trick is to not look like a sheep-- situational awareness is what has kept me out of trouble and I hope that it continues to do so. I'm not claiming to know it all but the best lessons I've learned from the defensive training classes taken is situational awareness-- shooting is secondary.

+1 on that. I don't think anyone on here WANTS to have to pull and shoot someone. If you feel funny about a situation, there is probably a reason.

Nothing wrong with exiting Stage Right and calling it a day in my opinion.

You can call it "cowardice" if you want too, but personally I think that examining a situation, and the future impact, is more clear headed and less likely to land you in cuffs, or worse, than being the Testosterone Poster Boy for the Left....

JD

 

[c3shooter]

situational awareness

+1000
Step 1. Pay attention to what is going on around you
Step 2. If something says "Leave NOW" pay attention to that voice
Step 3. Do NOT state "If you do X, I will do Y." Why give advance notice of intentions? The word "STOP" should be adequate.
Step 4. If you HAVE to bite, bite HARD.

 

[dango]

+1 on that. I don't think anyone on here WANTS to have to pull and shoot someone. If you feel funny about a situation, there is probably a reason.

Nothing wrong with exiting Stage Right and calling it a day in my opinion.

You can call it "cowardice" if you want too, but personally I think that examining a situation, and the future impact, is more clear headed and less likely to land you in cuffs, or worse, than being the Testosterone Poster Boy for the Left....

JD

1 don`t beleive cowardice has any place in this .It`s about awareness,to act,to run,to shoot,what-ever it takes to come out un-harmed,and un-violated.I probably should have pulled the trigger but, here I am,and I`m still not sure how I feel about it.I know I was lucky ! ?

 

[matt g]

1 don`t beleive cowardice has any place in this .It`s about awareness,to act,to run,to shoot,what-ever it takes to come out un-harmed,and un-violated.I probably should have pulled the trigger but, here I am,and I`m still not sure how I feel about it.I know I was lucky ! ?

If you lived to tell about it, you should never have pulled the trigger.

 

[G21.45]

If you lived to tell about it, you should never have pulled the trigger.

Perfect!

Now, for those of us who are unable to follow the precise democratic logic behind this statement, exactly how does a person arrive at such a conclusion?

Moreover, I really have to disagree with all of the responses so far. It's NOT situational awareness that's going to save you. Situational awareness in any of its popular forms; i.e.: Cooper's Color Code, or Boyd's OODA Loop, is NOT enough to see you safely through an armed confrontation. Something else, something very important, has to occur first!

Sure, this stuff sounds good on the internet; but, ultimately, none of it is going to keep you alive. The OODA Loop is a superior combat mentality to the more conventional Color Code; but, what keeps you alive during the moments immediately preceding an armed confrontation isn't just observation; it's not orientation either because - unless you're flying an airplane - you might not be able to maneuver. The decision part is the one I like the best; but, that's simply because it implies either fight or flight and excludes freezing.

Action, in and of itself, may or may not be useful. Lots of people take action when confronted. So what? Too many times that action is entirely inappropriate and may get them killed! In my opinion the one answer that is more correct than all the others is ..... ANTICIPATION!

When you anticipate, you form plans; you decide between choices; you gauge the situation; you gauge your opponent, and actively seek to exploit any perceived weakness, emotional foible, or tactical mistake he might demonstrate. Simply stated: You've got to be one small step, and one short second ahead of the other guy. When confronted you have to be able to demonstrate an immediate ability to be instantaneously lethal.

(Your weapon has to be either at or, ideally, in hand; and, while it might not conform to any set of, 'Marquess of Queensberry rules' ideally your attack should begin with an element of surprise.)

If you should fail to promptly behave in this way and act decisively, well .... you're chances of walking away from the incident, unscathed, are going to be greatly reduced. I have long recommended to anyone interested in learning these sorts of behaviors that he should practice, ‘WALKING SCENARIOS’ for himself.

As you move about during the day take a few moments, every now and then, to ask yourself; ‘If this (hypothetical bad situation) happened to me, right now, what would I do?’ ‘How would – how should - I respond?’ Do this enough times and you’ll have a mental template alive and active inside your head for many of the worst case scenarios.

 

[dango]

Nice sheep!!!!

 

[matt g]

Perfect!

Now, for those of us who are unable to follow the precise democratic logic behind this statement, exactly how does a person arrive at such a conclusion?

Moreover, I really have to disagree with all of the responses so far. It's NOT situational awareness that's going to save you. Situational awareness in any of its popular forms; i.e.: Cooper's Color Code, or Boyd's OODA Loop, is NOT enough to see you safely through an armed confrontation. Something else, something very important, has to occur first!

Sure, this stuff sounds good on the internet; but, ultimately, none of it is going to keep you alive. The OODA Loop is a superior combat mentality to the more conventional Color Code; but, what keeps you alive during the moments immediately preceding an armed confrontation isn't just observation; it's not orientation either because - unless you're flying an airplane - you might not be able to maneuver. The decision part is the one I like the best; but, that's simply because it implies either fight or flight and excludes freezing.

Action, in and of itself, may or may not be useful. Lots of people take action when confronted. So what? Too many times that action is entirely inappropriate and may get them killed! In my opinion the one answer that is more correct than all the others is ..... ANTICIPATION!

When you anticipate, you form plans; you decide between choices; you gauge the situation; you gauge your opponent, and actively seek to exploit any perceived weakness, emotional foible, or tactical mistake he might demonstrate. Simply stated: You've got to be one small step, and one short second ahead of the other guy. When confronted you have to be able to demonstrate an immediate ability to be instantaneously lethal.

(Your weapon has to be either at or, ideally, in hand; and, while it might not conform to any set of, 'Marquess of Queensberry rules' ideally your attack should begin with an element of surprise.)

If you should fail to promptly behave in this way and act decisively, well .... you're chances of walking away from the incident, unscathed, are going to be greatly reduced. I have long recommended to anyone interested in learning these sorts of behaviors that he should practice, ‘WALKING SCENARIOS’ for himself.

As you move about during the day take a few moments, every now and then, to ask yourself; ‘If this (hypothetical bad situation) happened to me, right now, what would I do?’ ‘How would – how should - I respond?’ Do this enough times and you’ll have a mental template alive and active inside your head for many of the worst case scenarios.

She's purty.

 

[JPBeck]

Plus one-- as far as posting link or citing a source-- please.

on the

None of us live in combat though. They make lovely anti-anxiety medications these days for those that feel they do though.

I don't know about the junk part though-- running scenarios can keep you from going into the evil "White" zone while at a stop light (which I've been known to slip into )

 

[dirtysouth]

Perfect!

Now, for those of us who are unable to follow the precise democratic logic behind this statement, exactly how does a person arrive at such a conclusion?

Moreover, I really have to disagree with all of the responses so far. It's NOT situational awareness that's going to save you. Situational awareness in any of its popular forms; i.e.: Cooper's Color Code, or Boyd's OODA Loop, is NOT enough to see you safely through an armed confrontation. Something else, something very important, has to occur first!

Sure, this stuff sounds good on the internet; but, ultimately, none of it is going to keep you alive. The OODA Loop is a superior combat mentality to the more conventional Color Code; but, what keeps you alive during the moments immediately preceding an armed confrontation isn't just observation; it's not orientation either because - unless you're flying an airplane - you might not be able to maneuver. The decision part is the one I like the best; but, that's simply because it implies either fight or flight and excludes freezing.

Action, in and of itself, may or may not be useful. Lots of people take action when confronted. So what? Too many times that action is entirely inappropriate and may get them killed! In my opinion the one answer that is more correct than all the others is ..... ANTICIPATION!

When you anticipate, you form plans; you decide between choices; you gauge the situation; you gauge your opponent, and actively seek to exploit any perceived weakness, emotional foible, or tactical mistake he might demonstrate. Simply stated: You've got to be one small step, and one short second ahead of the other guy. When confronted you have to be able to demonstrate an immediate ability to be instantaneously lethal.

(Your weapon has to be either at or, ideally, in hand; and, while it might not conform to any set of, 'Marquess of Queensberry rules' ideally your attack should begin with an element of surprise.)

If you should fail to promptly behave in this way and act decisively, well .... you're chances of walking away from the incident, unscathed, are going to be greatly reduced. I have long recommended to anyone interested in learning these sorts of behaviors that he should practice, ‘WALKING SCENARIOS’ for himself.

As you move about during the day take a few moments, every now and then, to ask yourself; ‘If this (hypothetical bad situation) happened to me, right now, what would I do?’ ‘How would – how should - I respond?’ Do this enough times and you’ll have a mental template alive and active inside your head for many of the worst case scenarios. [/


I THINK I JUST SAW MY WIFE

 

[dango]

John Boyd`s OODA Loop!

Obsreve,Orient,Decide,Act--Obsreve,Orient,Decide,Act,over and over and over,-the first one to decide,the first one to get into the other`s loop,the one who decides first,acts first,thus the winner.

 

[matt g]

Plus one-- as far as posting link or citing a source-- please.

on the
I don't know about the junk part though-- running scenarios can keep you from going into the evil "White" zone while at a stop light (which I've been known to slip into )

I know about the anti-anxiety meds because I can't slip into the 'white zone'. I live in the OODA, which is how I know it isn't necessary day in and day out. Most days, that knock on your door is just the UPS guy. That car that has been following you for 8 block is just going to Safeway also. That guy that is always pulling up next to your house at 4 AM is your neighbor who works nights.

 

[JPBeck]

Wow that sucks-- I just got out the hot tub--- where I was most definitely in the WHITE ZONE! Ducking for cover.

Sorry to hear your "condition". I suffered from PTSD when I first got out-- sleepless nights, when I did sleep I woke up sopping wet, violent temper, and little empathy towards others-- I didn't seek help until my wife threatened to leave me. Got help and we moved on-- literally--out of the city and that helped tremendously! No problems sleeping now, no violent outbursts, and I feel bad for every idiot I see (two out of three ain't bad, right?).

Hope you get better brother.

 

[matt g]

Wow that sucks-- I just got out the hot tub--- where I was most definitely in the WHITE ZONE! Ducking for cover.

Sorry to hear your "condition". I suffered from PTSD when I first got out-- sleepless nights, when I did sleep I woke up sopping wet, violent temper, and little empathy towards others-- I didn't seek help until my wife threatened to leave me. Got help and we moved on-- literally--out of the city and that helped tremendously! No problems sleeping now, no violent outbursts, and I feel bad for every idiot I see (two out of three ain't bad, right?).

Hope you get better brother.

It's manageable, I just need a chill pill every once in a while. I cooked my brain with LSD when I was a kid, then as I was coming down from that ride, I let Uncle Sugar program me as an ultra efficient killer. In retrospect, I probably should have waited a year or two between one and the other, but hindsight is always 20/20.

On top of all of that, I've got a 'type A' personality and in IQ of better than 140, so my mind gets bored quick and decides to play with itself. Unfortunately, it always wants to play Splinter Cell.

 

[dango]

These are the things I needed !

I sumize,that we are all human, and I personally prefer human inter-action over 100% mechanical response.It`s become a very dark and cold planet I find my-self upon.I find the " loop " a way of seeing the world around me,not to the point of paranoia,but just total awareness.I hope every one of us dose the right thing at the right time.but it sure can be unclear at times.I`ve decided to take some gun fighting classes and lots of research so I can find my own comfort zone with this huge two-sided resposibilty!Thank all of you for you`re candor and by all means,this is very helpfull. STILL,LOVE THE SHEEP

 

[G21.45]

..... I've decided to take some gun fighting classes and do lots of research so I can find my own comfort zone with this huge two-sided responsibility! Thank all of you for your candor; and, by all means, this is very helpful. STILL, LOVE THE SHEEP!

Hey, man! Here's another mutton chop for ya -

If you find a place that gives, 'gunfighting classes' please, by all means, let me know. (I'd like to take some classes, too!) In my old age I'm starting to think that, 'gunfighting savvy' is a lot like common sense:

Everybody thinks he's got it; but, the truth is, there's just not that much out there to go around!

Lance Thomas, America's Greatest Modern Gunfighter