guns with safety's and guns without?

Discussion in 'Semi-Auto Handguns' started by EnzoF660, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. EnzoF660

    EnzoF660 New Member

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    So I'm an aspiring gun enthusiast and I try to pick up as much as I can whenever and wherever I can, so some things I still have yet to learn.

    A little while back, I went to a range and got to fire a P226 for the first time. I already had experience with guns at this point and I knew how to operate them for the most part. The P226 was a rental from the gun shop that was attached to the indoor range. They showed me how to use it because I had never fired one before, even though I was pretty familiar with it already.

    What surprised me was that there was no safety on the gun. What I had originally thought was the safety was actually the decocking lever. It was then they told me that lots of guns don't have safety's but rather decocking levers: Sigs (as is evident above), Berettas, Glocks (I knew this one already), and they named a few more that I don't particularly remember.

    So in general, which companies or firearms in particular have actual safety's and which ones don't? I'm particularly interested in the 92fs. I've shot it before at a supervised range but I never really got to toy with it to see how it works. Among other guns also, does the 92 have a safety (the lever on the back of the slide), or is it just a decocking lever?

    Sorry for the long post, but thanks in advance.
     
  2. Cnynrat

    Cnynrat New Member

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    I am not a Beretta guy, but I'm pretty sure the lever on the back of the slide on the 92FS is a combined safety/decocking lever.

    Glocks have neither a safety or a decocking lever. Glocks are what I would call a "dual action only" pistol, where the trigger pull is always the same, and always quite long. The idea is the trigger pull is long and deliberate enough that it's not likely you'll pull it all the way accidentally, hence there is no need for a safety. Proponents of this type of gun cite the benefit of it always being ready to fire in an emergency - just pick it up and shoot it and you don't need to worry about forgetting to remove the safety. The disadvantage is the trigger pull is always long and many do not like it.

    The standard Sig P226 is dual action/single action (Sigs also are available with other trigger actions). Starting with the hammer decocked, the first trigger pull will be dual action - long and deliberate. Like the Glock, it's not easy to accidentally pull the trigger and fire a shot in dual action mode, so no need for a safety. Firing the first round cocks the hammer for the second and subsequent shots, so they are single action with a relatively short and light trigger pull. Proponents of this type of gun cite the "just pick it up and shoot it" capability like the Glock, with the advantage of a nice single action trigger for all but the first shot. A disadvantage is you need to learn two trigger pulls.

    1911 style pistols are single action only. The gun is manually cocked for the first shot, and then for subsequent shots the action of the slide leaves the hammer cocked. They have a very nice short and light single action trigger. They are designed to be carried "cocked and locked", meaning hammer cocked with the safety on. You get a really nice single action trigger for every shot, but some would say the disadvantage is you have to remember to flick the safety off when the adrenalin starts flowing.

    Most people have their favorites, and opinions can run strong. Good advice is to find a firing range that has a variety of guns available for rent so you can try some different guns before you buy to figure out what you like, and what fits your hands well.
     

  3. Bighead

    Bighead New Member

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    Beretta makes models with manual safeties, with decocker-only, and they also make double-action only pistols (no lever on the slide).

    Smith & Wesson makes similar variants as the Beretta. The M&P line of pistols come in models with & without manual safety levers.

    Glock pistols do not have a manual safety lever.

    Springfield XD pistols have both models with & without manual safeties.

    1911 format pistols have a manual safety, required for the cocked & locked carry that the gun was designed for. Browning Hi-Powers have similar safeties.

    HK USP pistols are configurable for safety, decock-only, and double action only.

    Most SIG-Sauer pistols have Decock only. They also make double-action only, as well as pistols with 1911 format safeties.

    There are other variations, things like HK PSP squeeze-cocker, but if you are familar with the mechanism of the above weapons you'll be fairly well rounded.

    Firearms training views your brain and your trigger finger as your primary safety (hence the rule: Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire), which is one reason the manual safety lever has fallen out of favor with many, except in formats where it is a necessary part of the operation (like the 1911 pistol).

    Good luck, and welcome to handgunning.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2009
  4. Bighead

    Bighead New Member

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    More about the Beretta 92

    F Models
    Also known as the 92SB-F, the model 92 F was developed in 1983 as a further modification of the model 92 SB that featured a slightly reshaped grip, plastic grip panels and a new, more durable finish. The current production version of the 92 F has a double-action first trigger pull, followed by a single-action trigger pull for subsequent rounds. The "F" and "FS" models have a safety lever that also functions as a decocking lever. The 92 FS was submitted for USA XM9 Army Pistol Trials in 1985 and adopted by the US Army as the M9 Pistol. It is manufactured both in Italy and in USA, and has also been adopted by many other military and law enforcement groups. The 92FS features a chrome-lined barrel, recurved triggerguard for improved two-handed grip, new grip panels and lanyard ring, Bruniton finish, and trigger bar disconnect safety.

    G Models
    The G models (designed for the French "Gendarmerie Nationale") were adopted by the French Military as PAMAS ; they feature a manual decocking lever only instead of the safety-decocking lever of the 92 FS. When the decocking lever is released, it automatically returns to the ready to fire position. There is no manual safety.

    DS Models
    The DS models are "double action only" pistols: the hammer always follows the slide forward to come to rest in the double action position (the hammer never stays cocked). The hammer spur has been removed, and is flush with the rear of the slide. The manual safety lever on the slide provides the same function as it does on the 92 FS.

    D Models
    The D models are also "double action only" pistols. They are identical to the DS models but without the manual safety (the lever has also been eliminated).

    from Beretta 92 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  5. 741512th

    741512th New Member

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    Short answer: The 92FS has a safety. It is also a decocking lever.
     
  6. blackhawk45

    blackhawk45 New Member

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    Glocks actually have three safetys,But the most important safety,is between your ears!
     
  7. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Safety you say?
     

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  8. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I hear people complain that "XYZ" gun is dangerous because it does not have a safety. When was the last time you saw a revolver with a safety?
     
  9. 741512th

    741512th New Member

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    Dangerous? The things are inherently dangerous. That's the point. I've found the one thing I like about safeties is when I'm at the range with friends. I like the ritual, if I'm putting the gun down to let a friend take over, of clearly engaging the safety as I step away. Otherwise, I agree with the person above: the real safety is between the ears.
     
  10. biff44

    biff44 New Member

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    I am pretty fond of safeties. I think it is because of all the logs, rocks, and small cliffs I have fallen over in the woods while hunting with pistols/revolvers. If there is not a safety, like on my revolvers, I leave an empty cylinder. I would hate to have to crawl out 2 miles to the truck after taking a .454 to the thigh.
     
  11. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    I second that

    In any event the safest firearm is that with the action open. The first four rules of hunter safety which coincidently coincide with the first four rules of the NRA's firearm safety is:


    Always point your muzzle in a safe direction
    Treat every firearm as it were loaded
    Be sure of your target and what is in front and behind it
    Keep your finger off the trigger until your ready to pull it

    Like the man said "safety is between your ears".
     
  12. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Any modern revolver is safe to carry with a full charge of ammo. In the "old" days, before transfer bars etc. The hammer could strike the primer if the gun was dropped. You can hammer (literally) on the hammer of a Smith revolver and the hammer (on the gun) would break before the round would go bang.
     
  13. WDB

    WDB New Member

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    I expect the the best safety is keeping your finger off the trigger uinless you are ready to fire. With that said when putting your finger on the trigger in a time of threat the manual safety just may become the problem. I'm pretty comfrontable with my S&W M&P's with no safety and one in the pipe. But I shoot them often to have that comfront. If you are carring a pistol with a manual safety when you shoot you should practice with removing the safety to fire and make it a learned skill otherwise in a threat sisuation you will pull the trigger then remember you forgot the safety. Might be the few seconds required for the bad guy to make his more. So practice with your firearm as you will carry it so it becomes a habit and practice often.
     
  14. dragunovsks

    dragunovsks New Member

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    I have a .22LR/.22 Magnum revolver that has a safety.
     
  15. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    I'll take a wild guess.........a Heritage Arms revolver?

    :)
     
  16. kdog

    kdog New Member

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    The CZ75 has a saftey aswell. The BD modell includes a decocker aswell.
    On own CZ75 from 1986 the safety blocks the hammer, trigger and slide.
    So like on a 1911 it could be carried in Condition 1.

    One thing I don`t use the safety for is passing the gun on to somebody else on the range.
    The gun is always unloaded. Mag out and no round in the chamber. The slide is pulled back and the chamber visible.
    If someone else wants to shoot my gun, he can load it himself.
     
  17. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

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    One more little tidbit if I may. In my hunter safety classes I alway teach that a safety is a mechanical devise that can and will fail. A safety is not a substitute for safe firearm handling.

    Believe me brothers, you can take this advice to the bank.
     
  18. biff44

    biff44 New Member

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    Yeah, what he said!

    Being an engineer, I am always impressed by the many and varied ways things can fail. I am also often impressed at the stupidity of certain designs that I see! I make a lot of money fixing poor designs after the customer comes to me complaining about field failures.

    Not having met the engineers at colt, taurus, HK, etc, that designed my guns, I am skeptical that they took the required design review steps, or the proper environmental testing, to make me happy that their safety would be error-free.

    For example, hunting outside, freezing rain, 20F, oil a little congealed, how do you know that the transfer bar is actually out of the way of the hammer? Over cocking/decocking 100,000 times, does the transfer bar every stick?

    Why roll those dice if you do not have to?
     
  19. Greywolf1949

    Greywolf1949 New Member

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    You can add on a manual safety to Glock pistols, if you want. Brownell's sells them. Go to Brownell's site, go to "Handgun Parts" then search for "manual safety." The advertising hype reads as follows:

    Manually engaged safety lever provides an extra level of security and safety for Glock owners. Blocks trigger movement, allows the slide to be cycled and pistol loaded or unloaded with the safety on. Operates easily with your right-hand thumb. Contact pad is easy to engage, yet won’t interfere with holster fit. All Glock passive safeties continue to function normally. Gunsmith installation is recommended.

    I can't vote for or against them as I've never hade one to try. But they do exist.
     
  20. Mongo

    Mongo Active Member Supporter

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    Kahr CW 40

    At first I was concerned about the CW 40 not having a safety. Because of it's size I ordered one anyway. When I took it to the range I noticed the trigger pull was comparable to a double action revolver fired from the hammer closed position. This leads me to the conclusion that it is as safe as carrying a loaded double action revolver. What's your opinion?