Guns stashed on top of a refrigerators

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by Vincine, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    "Philadelphia boy, 2, kills older sister using gun of mother's boyfriend, police say."

    "Police believe the mother's boyfriend had brought the gun to the house and stashed it on top of a refrigerator."

    http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....a_boy_2_kills_older.html#incart_river_default

    It doesn't say how the gun got from the top of the refrigerator to the children in the bedroom while the mother was in the bathroom. I'm sure there is more to this story than reported, but still, it was unsecured.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  2. G30USMC

    G30USMC New Member Supporter

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    Disgusting ...... Makes all of us look bad, wait for the anti'a chime in
     

  3. wittmeba

    wittmeba New Member

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    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  4. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    this should not have happend. the shooter was only 2. probly really had no clue.. but the older kids should have known better...if they had been taught gun safety, they whould have imediately removed the gun from the babys hands... if only they had taught the kids gun safety.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  5. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    If only the gun had not been left unattended and unlocked with children in the house.

    I imagine the 2 year old climbed up and got it.
     
  6. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    my kids are climbers.. not even they can climb on top of our fridge without a ladder. and i doubt the 2yr old used a ladder. my bet is an older kid or adult had moved it to the counter or something and didnt tell or forgot.

    ive left my 5 yr old alone with an empty gun as a test.. multiple times.. and every time he comes running over saying daddy daddy. i found a gun. go put it away...

    i firmly believe in training/teaching at young ages.

    and i too have left a pistol on top of my fridge from time to time.
     
  7. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    I don’t know much about .357 handguns. Was it a semi' or revolver? Does a two year old have the finger strength to pull a DA trigger?
     
  8. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    You are playing with fire my friend.

    The child's mind does not comprehend a world without "do overs"... Under lock and key, our on your hip, is the only responsible way to store guns in homes with small children.

    Tack
     
  9. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    could be either. however, with an 8 inch barrel my guess is it was a .357 mag revolver.
     
  10. wittmeba

    wittmeba New Member

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    Agree and this is why I think the truth will never be known. Without a witness (even the older one could be a witness but may have been in another room) mama could have left it on the counter - or the boyfriend. Had it really been on top a fridge it may have been OK...but someone goofed and it cost a life.

    Did mama leave the room to go to the bathroom while the kid had the gun? Stupid if she did.
     
  11. wknight40

    wknight40 New Member

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    These adults need to be charged with child neglect and some kind of murder charge. We have had at least two children in my are get killed by another child because somehow they got a hold of a gun. I'm all for gun rights but this has got to stop.

    As mentioned the gun belongs on your hip or locked up, especially with small kids in the house.

    A year or so ago we had an Active duty soldier that left his daughter sleeping on the bed. Next to the bad on the night stand was a loaded pistol, not sure the caliber. I think she was 4 or 5 years old. Anyway he went outside to talk to a neighbor. A little while later they hear a gun shot and he finds her dead next to the bed. One of the things he said in the interview was "She was sleeping when I left her". Kids wake up, sorry. Don't remember exactly what happened other than hearing that he was discharged from the military. Not sure what other charges he had but they were not good.

    Myself and my brother and sister were brought up around guns. We were taught safety and not to touch them when mom or dad was not around. We always knew where the key for the gun cabinet was but never had the inclination to "play" with them with out permission. Once we got old enough we were taught how to shoot them. None of us ever had any problems with guns.

    I think that is part of the problem today. The media has people so scared that they don't teach their kids gun safety anymore.
     
  12. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You beat me to it Winds. On one of the memory cards from my camera I have a picture of my 2 YO nephew sitting on top of the fridge in the Erie House. He climbed up to get to the cookie jar via the counter and one of the pantry shelves. We found this out about 4 hours after I found him on top of the fridge because I set up a trail camera to see if he would do it again.

    Needless to say, I took both sis and BIL over to the computer, and played it back for them. He now understands why I keep the guns under lock and key, with the exception of the one I am carrying at the time, and why I don't store anything that can be dangerous in any manner but locked up. He now has the old gun cabinet that I was going to sell sitting in their bed room. Lesson learned the easy way, thank God.

    I agree Tack, but it's not just the small children you have to worry about. I had a friend who was 19 get shot accidentally by a mutual friend who was 18. the 19 YO was raised around guns, and taught direarms safety from a young age. The 18 YO was not. the likelyhood of a problem is greater, but not exclusive to, with young children.

    Not to sound like a PSA, but if it's not on you or under your control it should always be locked up. I trust my 17 YO daughter with a key to my cabinet and her guns are locked up in her cabinet (mom and I also have a key). I raised her around firearms, and safety lessons began at a young age, but there is an unknown factor that is always accounted for with us. I don't know the knowledge level or mental level of all of her friends. We don't take chances when It could endanger the safety of ourselves and others. Not worth the risk IMHO.

    The OP is a sad situation, and the adults will be charged. This is a case of negligence at best, and something far worse in all likelyhood. According to the article, the oldest kid (14) pulled it down from the fridge so they could plat with it. If the older kids had been taught firearms safety, this probably never would have happened. The boyfriend also should have known better than to leave a loaded pistol laying around unattended in the first place. Either way, it's a sad situation.
     
  13. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think anyone with any sense should know not to leave a loaded firearm anywhere that children could gain access to it. Or anyone not authorised by the owner.

    Every child is different you followed what you were taught, other children might not , children can be taught firearms safety without them having access to them unsupervised why take the chance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  14. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    Yes, it is not worth the risk and there are no do overs. Even kids who are taught firearms safety are still children with thinking skills that are very different than adults. Yes, firearms safety should be taught but I would never leave a gun unattended if I had a child living in this house. Even good kids make mistakes.

    I wouldn't never want to say, "I wish I would have......." or "If only I........" It's just not worth a child's life.

    And not all refrigerators are free standing. Like Kfox said, a child could pull a chair over to my counter, get on the counter and reach the top of the refrigerator.
     
  15. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Alternatively, "If only the children had not been left unattended with a gun in the house".

    That climb was probably not instantaneous and maybe less than silent.

    Watch the kids; they move more than the firearms.

    I'm not a parent and don't have children over; it keeps my firearms safer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  16. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    When our baby girl was 3 1/2, she developed a taste for fish sticks. Straight out of the freezer. We found her tugging a kitchen chair across the floor, climbing up, opening the freezer, getting a frozen fish stick out, sitting in the chair, and happily munching on her fish-sicle.

    How many people "child proof" their kitchen by adding cabinet latches to keep the rug rats from drinking the furniture polish? Just about anyone with a grain of sense. Leaving a loaded firearm where a child can get to it? Felony child neglect at best.

    Without argument, children should be trained- guns, knives, sharp tools, etc. But when kids are too young to BE trained, the dangerous things need to be secured.

    Yes, if the gun was a.357 magnum, and not a .357 Sig, it was probably a revolver. But there is a lot unanswered on this one, and I do not want to speculate.
     
  17. wittmeba

    wittmeba New Member

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    I do agree that had they been watched the way they should, all would be fine. For a little one to enter a room with a gun and NOT have someone notice and act immediately is inexcusable.

    But the climbing...I don't see it this way. You just don't climb up a refrigerator. Especially a 2 year old. Kids get into what they can see. They don't just assume there is something on top of the refrig and climb up there. Then climb down with a 357 handgun. I just don't think so. Kids can get into a lot of things but not climbing a fridge. That gun was left reachable and the kid got it. Mama didn't take action and the results are history.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  18. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    I'd like to meet the 2 year old capable of manipulating a revolver. I think someone else shot the girl. Why not blame it on the baby, she can't be punished for it.
     
  19. wittmeba

    wittmeba New Member

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    The article did mention swabbing everyone's hands and the baby was the one with gun powder residue and burns. But I do agree that especially with a 6" barrel is a lot for a 2 year to hold...and climb down a refrig with it too...I don't think so.

    Don't think we have the whole story yet :)
     
  20. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    According to the article the 14 year old son got the gun from the top of the fridge, not the 2 year old. What bothers me about the story is that the mother did not tell her boyfriend to secure the pistol or leave it unloaded with the bullets left elsewhere. That would have at least lessened the chances of something going wrong. There is more to this story, and I think we will never know the full story on this incident.

    As to the there is no way a 2 YO could pull the trigger on a DA revolver, I do not know the make and model myself, but I can assume that an 8 inch barreled DA revolver would likely be capable of firing SA as well. My GP 100 has about an 8 pound pull in DA, but it also has about a 2 pound pull in SA. If one of the kids (or the 2 YO) cocked it first, I figure that a toddler could pull the trigger on his own.

    Either way, there is still no replacement for securing your firearm when not in direct control of it. If it's not on me, it's under lock and key.