Gun store employee 'accidentally' shoots customer.

Discussion in 'Firearms in the Media' started by LarryinCo, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. LarryinCo

    LarryinCo New Member

    We haven't got all the information yet (and I doubt that we will EVER know all of the facts), but there are SO MANY things wrong with this incident already.

    I have lived with guns from a VERY early age and I was immediately reprimanded any time that I 'made a mistake' handling a gun. It didn't feel good at the time to be embarassed, but now I thank my father, brother, cousins, uncles, etc. for that strict upbringing because I don't even have to think about gun safety. Every time I touch a gun, I check it immediately and make it safe if it is not already. The barrel is ALWAYS pointed in a safe direction even after I know the gun is unloaded.

    Bottom line: Gun safety rules must become AUTOMATIC HABITS for anyone handling firearms.
  2. rhyno13

    rhyno13 New Member

    Why was the gun loaded in the store in the first place? And second why was his finger on the trigger while unloading the weapon? Sounds like he was a dumbass.

  3. trip286

    trip286 New Member

    I view gun safety much the same way as knife safety. Knives are much easier to see the effects of unsafe handling without the almost definite possibility of loss of life.

    You wouldn't put an open folder or unsheathed fixed blade in your pocket, so why leave a gun not properly secured when its "hot"?

    Knives are sharp, so you generally keep your fingers away from the edge. Duh. So too, you pay attention to your muzzle awareness.

    You don't cut towards yourself with a knife. Again, muzzle awareness.

    Generally, dangerous objects deserve the utmost respect, because they're dangerous.

    Guns just get a little more in depth, mostly because of their reach.

    My heart goes out to the victim, AND to the gun store employee. I'm sure he's just as traumatized by the events. And I'm also curious why he was having to unload a handgun, in, I assume, the main "showroom".

    I'd almost be willing to place money that another customer brought it in loaded, but that's pure speculation.
  4. Fathead00

    Fathead00 New Member

    Like Ryhno said "Why was it loaded?". I've been in alot of stores that sell firearms and NONE of them are loaded!! So, why was this one loaded? If this store rents firearms they NEVER let you load them outside of the range either. Unless the old guy brought in his own or the guy behind the counter was showing his own!!
  5. KG7IL

    KG7IL Well-Known Member

    Conjecture runs rampant. I wish we know more about the situtation.

    Perhap's this is one of those things we heard about on another thread: Buyer cocks gun, doesn't know what to do. Shop says bring it in"

    Unless the gun was pointed in a safe direction and ricocheted, I think the shop employee bears the responsibility, the customer bears the injury.
    Guess we need to keep clear of the shop's that don't handle safely. If you see such a thing, let the owner know.
  6. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

    This goes back to training, training, training...

    The clerk should have known better than to point any firearm at a customer.
    IF the customer was seeking advice on a loaded weapon, then the customer was not trained.

    The first thing I ask when a customer has me do a transfer is "Are you familiar with this firearm? Do you know how to load and unload?"
  7. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

    Well you cant fix stupid , just to bad he hadnt pointed it at him self . :D
    if I owned a gun store I would have a marker that slides into the chamber of each gun to show they are unloaded. I always check them when I pick them up anyway but its just a easy thing to do and lots of reassurance for the customer , owner and associates that eliminates things like these
  8. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

    Why a loaded gun was present is speculation. Most of my areas LGS's open carry so there are plenty of loaded guns present.

    We could speculate all day long and we do not even know if there was a mechanical problem with the gun.

    What we do know is that a man was negligently shot so at least 1 tenant of gun handling, "muzzle control", was broken.

    I personally noticed a fair amount of poor handling by LGS employees after the 08 election and expect to see more now as retailers increase staff to deal with the current rush of business.

    Liuck for me, I procured most of my collection durring the Bush years. ;)

  9. rhyno13

    rhyno13 New Member

    I have never handed a pistol to anyone where the slide was not locked back. I have never had an accidental discharge either.
  10. Fathead00

    Fathead00 New Member

    Very true. That's the one thing at each store I've been at is they lock the slide back.
  11. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

    The clerk is totally liable and negligent regarding the act!

    Another serious case of CRANIAL RECTITIS! :rolleyes:

  12. Doc3402

    Doc3402 New Member

    I'm getting a big kick out of the comments in this thread. Why? Well, let's look at another deadly weapon. Do you know that the great majority of car crashes are caused by both the least experienced and the most experienced drivers? The least experienced you can understand, but the most experienced? It's called complacency. "Well heck. I've done this a thousand times and I've never had an accident." Statistically, you will.

    The same goes for firearms. Quit beating your chest and grunting about how safe you are and realize it can happen to you. What's more, the more you handle firearms, the more likely that it will happen to you. Before you handle any firearm put everything else out of your mind and concentrate on what you are doing. My successors don't need you to provide job security. Read my sig... carefully.
  13. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

    Maybe the customer isn't always right. Maybe the customer pissed him off and he shot the sob. :eek:
  14. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

    I had an employee of a gun store hand me a firearm I was not familiar with... and didn't clear it before "attempting" to hand it to me. I asked she had cleared it, DOH!
  15. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

    I went to one gun store where a clerk (the owner's wife) handed me a shotgun with the chamber closed. Out of habit, I opened the chamber to check it. By her reaction, you would have thought I spat in her face, and called her an effing B!tch!. I got yelled at for clearing a weapon! Needless to say, I still go to that shop, but only for parts I can't get elsrwhere, and to drink the coffee while visiting with some of my friends who still go there. There are 2 other shops in the area where I never have to self clear a gun that is not carried in by me. I buy from them. The incident in the OP is why only shop at shops where the safety rules are followed.
  16. utf59

    utf59 New Member

    There's any number of reasons why a gun might be loaded, and why it might have to be unloaded. There are ZERO reasons why it should be pointed at someone.

    As far as gun etiquette is concerned, I've been taught that it's good manners to check a gun when you hand it to someone AND when you receive one. It should be checked by everyone who handles it. I like going to the gun shops where they give you a strange look if you DON'T double-check it when they hand it to you.
  17. Polygon

    Polygon New Member

    One simple rule was broken. Keep your booger hook off the trigger. Every gun shop I go to, besides perhaps Cabelas, the employees are carrying open. I am carrying concealed, and I assume I'm not the only one. So it's safe to say there are plenty of loaded guns in a gun store. That fact doesn't concern me. What concerns me is why his finger ended up on the trigger. One could also ask why the muzzle ended up pointed at another person. A real pet peeve of mine while looking at gun at the gun store.

    I've never had an issue with gun safety from the employees but there have been plenty of times I've had to say something to another customer.

    It's odd, I was thinking about this statement just the other day. I came to the conclusion that anyone that believes "it" can never happen to them, whatever "it" may be, is delusional and a borderline idiot at the very least.
  18. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

    I totally get that the rules of gun safety are sacrosanct for a reason.


    At a gun store, the primary goal is selling a gun. After clearing a gun right in front of the customer, the store should lay it down with the action closed and no chamber flag. This is the only way for a newbie gun buyer to be able to check out the gun. An open slide means the customer has to admit they have no idea how to close the action and a chamber flag means there is no opportunity to dry fire.

    The counter guy made several mistakes, but gun stores don't usually have ammunition in their wares.
  19. BullseyePrecision

    BullseyePrecision New Member

    If this gun shop is any like the one close to where I live about 1/4 of the workers actually know about guns and know the facts. The other 75% act like they know what they are talking about but actually have no idea. They are the kind that are "always" right because "I" work in a gun store. I go in there to look at guns at that is it, I will do my purchasing somewhere else.
  20. LarryinCo

    LarryinCo New Member

    I took a long time to think about a possible response to the quoted post above. Hopefully, I can express my thoughts well enough to communicate*. My purpose is to communicate with you.
    My first impression when reading the quoted post above was that it was critical of several of the previous posters in the thread, myself included. The use of the phrase ‘beating your chest and grunting’ was an obvious reference to the ape-like stereotype of man which so many feminists have tried to make the standard in our society. However, I understand that criticism is often the most truthful source of new ideas for improvement and so I continued to read searching for the poster’s suggestions for improvement.
    I found some truths. (Statistics do say that a certain percentage of a normal population will experience accidents. The more any action is performed, the greater CHANCE there is for an accident. Complacency is a contributing factor to many accidents.) However, statistics apply to a POPULATION. Statistics cannot predict the outcome for an INDIVIDUAL in that population. (I can provide more information if you disagree with these two statements.)
    I found some vague assertions which MAY have been opinion. (Cars are “deadly weapons”? How much is a “great majority”?) I’m certainly willing to accept those statements without argument anyway.
    I also found what could be INTERPRETED as a condescending attitude. (“Read my sig… carefully.”) If I misinterpreted, please explain further (or ignore it, if you wish).
    The only suggestion I found was “Before you handle any firearm, put everything else out of your mind and concentrate on what you are doing.” In My Humble Opinion, this is GOOD ADVICE. Perhaps what I failed to do in my first post was explicitly state that I have made this action a HABIT of mine when I handle firearms. My intention of following all of the firearm safety rules by habit as well as focusing my attention on the firearm in my possession while increasing my awareness of people and objects in my vicinity may very well be the SAME THING as Doc3402 is saying.
    However, despite what some say, it IS POSSIBLE to eliminate ALL “DEFECTS” in a process for a small population. I am not foolish enough to say that I will achieve that goal over my entire lifetime. I CAN say that SO FAR I have achieved that goal with regard to negligent discharge of a firearm. (Ask me again the day before I die. If I have not had a negligent discharge at that time, it is unlikely that I will in my lifetime. There are certainly examples of many people who have achieved that goal.)
    *MY definition of communication is the process whereby ideas in one brain can be transferred and completely understood in another brain. My intention for the original post was to encourage others to do whatever is necessary FOR THEM to prevent a negligent discharge of a firearm. I shared the process which has worked FOR ME SO FAR. (65 years, to date) Let me explicitly state that I feel no anger or malice toward anyone and I hope that you feel the same way. Differences in opinions are to be expected. There is an old adage … “If two people think exactly the same way about everything, then only one of them is doing any thinking.” I hope that I have communicated with several of you. :)