Greatest battle impliment ever devised?

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by bluesteel762x51, Jun 5, 2008.

  1. bluesteel762x51

    bluesteel762x51 New Member

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    We have all heard that well used statement that seems to be mandatory in every writers description of the M1. My question to the group is this.

    What do you personally think was the greatest battle impliment ever devised? Let's limit it to WW2 era weaponry to be fair to ole' George

    Me, I am torn between the American Jeep and the German 88 mm gun. Thank God I was never on the receiving end of the 88 but what I have read it was a pure terror on the battlefield.

    ...and the good ole jeep just keeps going and going and going and going....

    Please give me your ideas. I am a reader that is just plain sick and tired of the standard issue Paton quote used every time someone writes about the Garand. Is it a law or something that they ALWAYS have to use that beaten into the ground quote over and over again? For once I would love to read a Garand story that does not have that etched in stone quote in it.

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2008
  2. ScottG

    ScottG New Member

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    Yes.

    :p

    I guess I might consider throwing a vote towards the Me262....
     

  3. bluesteel762x51

    bluesteel762x51 New Member

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    Wow, Scott I never thought of that, but yes......very much so yes. That was head & shoulders above anything.
     
  4. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    The Greatest BAttle Implement ever Devised? Ohhhhh lets see........
    My gosh, that would have to be the Garrand! lol I own a Jeep so I beg to differ on IT being better than a Garrand - hell, if someone was shooting at you it wouldn't even get you out of the way of flying lead...not with a 4 cyl. continental...or even a 4.0 L six..
     
  5. G21.45

    G21.45 New Member

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    :( I recently sold my DCM WWII Garand. I had spent years and lots of mulla restoring it and building that magnificent rifle into an ever more accurate long range hitter. (The only thing I left original was the beaten up stock; but, I did clean it up, considerably, and refinished it to government specification.)

    You know what? I really miss that beautiful rifle! I'm getting older; and, it was starting to become a chore for my old bones to absorb that sort of recoil; but, I got 'a tell you: It was a really great, 'tank of a rifle'! Strong enough to use as a baseball bat, substantial enough to handle ANY 30-06 round, and accurate enough to reach out and touch someone at 6 to 900 yards. In fact, the Garand is a rifle whose inherent accuracy easily exceeds a typical shooter's ability to perform!

    When I got it there, were dark red stains on the stock; something had actually soaked into the wood. I steamed a lot of it out; but, a little still remained. I glass-bedded the action, and laboriously applied multiple coats of cold-pressed linseed oil - hand-rubbing the wood between coats - until the finish took on a deep subtle shine. Then, I had the best Garand mechanic in Pennsylvania give it a nice clean 5.6# trigger. (About as low as you can go on the Garand without causing other problems.) Everyone who shot it said the same thing - That I had the best Garand trigger they'd ever tried.

    I installed a new stainless steel op rod and spring; but, I kept the original parts and passed them along to the purchaser. That rifle even had a brand new, hand-oiled regulation leather sling from Turner Leather Co., hooded and interchangeable front sight blades, and a precision rear peep sight.

    Like I said, I really miss that Garand. On the plus side, it went to a CMP match shooter who paid top dollar for it, and really appreciated what he was getting. Funny, but, I wanted that rifle to pass to someone who would take good care of it.

    Sometimes, getting old really stinks! It may be trite; it may be stale; but, yes, the M-1 Garand battle rifle probably is, 'the greatest battle implement ever invented'. It is an excellent battlefield pike - THE bayonet weapon by which all others may be judged. It is a phenomenal long range hitter; AND all of this accuracy, also, comes from a semiautomatic rifle!

    Who cares that it only holds 8 rounds or goes, 'klankity-klank' when it shoots dry and flips an en bloc clip. There's an art to loading those clips, anyway! (Ever hear of, 'Garand thumb' - Ouch!) Even today few combatants would live long enough to run up on a squad armed with these excellent rifles; and if an attacker did he'd, probably, be immediately skewered, or his skull would be bashed in. (Try that with an M-4!) :p
     
  6. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    It's a shame you're limiting it to WWII or I'd have answered "stirrups".



    The Mauser 98K wasn't anything to sneeze at, nor was the Garand.

    The German Tiger II was a pretty good tank for its time.

    The American P-47 Thunderbolt was a pretty amazing aircraft.



    What was the single best? That will boil down to an opinion, and as we all know, everyone's got one....
     
  7. G21.45

    G21.45 New Member

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    :confused: Huh! Why is it always a moderator? :p

    Stirrups! What, the heck, are you drinking? (The Mongols and the Huns didn't use them; and, look at the havoc they caused!)

    Fortunately, Hitler's stubborn refusal to adopt any general infantry rifle other than the Mauser 98K severely limited the effectiveness and lethality of all German infantry until nearly the end of the Second World War when the MP43/44 Sturmgewehr (assault rifle) began to appear in significant numbers on the Eastern Front.

    This is old information: Many World War II analysts credit the Allied Forces' use of bomb and artillery shells fitted with VT and proximity fuses as THE number one most dangerous and effective weapon of the war.

    Proximity fuses are credited with saving the American Navy from suffering a severe loss of ships to Kamikaze attacks in the Pacific Theater; it has been recognized that if Germany had these fuses, then, the massive Allied bombing campaigns probably would have failed; and, as great as the German M88 artillery cannon was, Allied artillery fitted with VT and proximity fuses had the advantage of being considerably more lethal.

    Fortunately, these are two more superior warfare devices that the Nazis didn't possess, or the Allies would have suffered far greater losses, even defeats, in hard fought battles like the Hultgren Forest - Where German artillery played a significant role, but, was still unable to achieve sufficient impact to prevent the Allies from finally overrunning their positions.

    When measured in terms of accurately delivered sheer Hellish destruction and virtually guaranteed multiple deaths, no other weapon of World War II exceeds the lethality of the VT and proximity fuses that were used in Allied bombs and artillery shells. ;)
     
  8. gorknoids

    gorknoids New Member

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    Hiroshima? Nagasaki?
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I'm a little confused, and a little slow apparently, but my employer gets a Fed credit for employing the mentally weak, so I serve a purpose. :D

    Is it weapons there developed for/during WWII? Or is it weapons that were developed from the dawn of time up to and including weapons for WWII?

    JD
     
  10. fapprez

    fapprez New Member

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    The answer is the training provided to the combat soldier, hands down. Without all the intense training and study these young soldiers have, we may as well beat each other over the heads with rocks. Training is the best battle implement ever devised.
     
  11. G21.45

    G21.45 New Member

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    :) Not really! (I was waiting for someone to bring this up.)

    The war with Japan ended - and was not fought - with atomic bombs. The gist of this thread revolves around those close quarter battle implements used to slaughter and kill people everyday. Atom bombs don't really fit into the same category as the much more commonly used Garand (or AK-47) rifle. ;)
     
  12. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    :)

    At the time, I was putting down a Smutty Nose Shoals Pale Ale (they were out of the India Pale Ale). But that's moot, as I was only on my first one.

    Sure, plenty of wars were fought prior to something being invented. One might argue that riding a horse at all was the single greatest invention. Or maybe flint knapping was. Or maybe the chariot, saddle, bow, armor, etc.

    In point of fact, it was the Europeans who adapted the stirrup around 700AD who pushed back the Huns, which was no small feat. (The Huns knew about stirrups but often didn't use them.)

    If we're talking the single most effective killing machine, the nuclear bomb probably wins hands down.

    But since this is a firearms forum, maybe it's best to consider them only. The AK-47 has probably been used to kill more people than any other single firearm.
     
  13. opaww

    opaww New Member

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    The M1 grand first then battlefield Communications With battlefield comms. I can call indirect fire, fire suppression missions, Air strikes, have troops rearranged to meat the enemy, give intel. reports on enemy troop movements, equipment and strengths, Call for medical aid or evac.
     
  14. bluesteel762x51

    bluesteel762x51 New Member

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    Your sentments is exactly how I feel about my Garand. I recently put four shots into the same hole using that Greek stuff that is on the market right now. I shot eight times and only saw five holes on the paper. It was truly amazing. The rifle did it. I could never shoot that good.
     
  15. bluesteel762x51

    bluesteel762x51 New Member

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    VT and proximaty fuses? This is why I love this forum. I had never thought about it, but yes another excellent input. It is funny how much one learns when one asks his learned colleagues.

    Dave
     
  16. bluesteel762x51

    bluesteel762x51 New Member

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    When I was studying the history of technology at the U of Houston stirrups were mentioned as a MAJOR leap in technology.
     
  17. bluesteel762x51

    bluesteel762x51 New Member

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    Hmmm....I guess it would be just in the developed for and used during WW2, even though mules, carrier pigeons, sailboats, and swords were used. I hope that makes it a bit clearer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2008