grandfather's luger

Discussion in 'Curio & Relic Discussion' started by thepit56, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. thepit56

    thepit56 New Member

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    My grandfather is finally ready to give up his luger after storing it in an attic for 50 years and I'd like to take care of it and fix it up.

    How could I remove the rust from the gun. also I would like to buy some bullets for the gun, what size round does the gun take (I don't have a gun permit, do you need one to buy bullets in NJ).

    thanks for any help you guys can give me. I don't have the gun with me but if I do get it then I will post the serial number.
     
  2. fluffo63

    fluffo63 New Member

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    is it a german luger???

    as far as the rust????how bad is the rust???if i wanted to keep it you could have the whole pistol re-blued,but for selling it,s worth more un-touched.
    bullets would be 9mm Luger,and i think they are still around??i dont think you have to have a permit to buy ammo,if you are of legal age-18-21 some states
    i hope i helped:D
     

  3. Boris

    Boris New Member

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    Luger P08?

    Can't help you with the legal whatfore, depending on the model the Luger P08 was manufactured in two calibres, 9mm Para (all military and the most likely) and the 7.65 Luger.

    First job carefully remove the grips, side plate off and field strip, bung it in a bath of petrol and simmer for two days....no only joking just leave to to soak. If there is only light surface rusting use very fine wire wool and a light oil to remove the rust. Fluff is quite right if you have it refinished the collector value makes it almost worthless.

    One important note do not, and I repeat do not, if the gun is a military P08 use factory modern 9mm rounds. They will fire but the pistol was designed in a gentler age and modern ammunition at some point may fracture the toggel linkage, with spectacular results.... Ure toward safety and use down loaded reloads..Good Luck
     
  4. Boris

    Boris New Member

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    P.S.

    If you want to research the pistol, nip into a gunshow to a book counter and look up either 'Lugers at Random' or Fred A. Datig's book 'The Luger Pisol' (my favorite)......:rolleyes:
     
  5. thepit56

    thepit56 New Member

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    thanks everyone, I will post pictures of the gun when I get it, until then, thank you for clearing up some of the mysteries.
     
  6. marysdad

    marysdad Member

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    You may want to try Luger Forums, as folks there specialize in Lugers and can help you accomplish what you want without doing any irreparable damage.
     
  7. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    +1 on steel wool but, SPECIAL ATTENTION: Use only 0000 steel wool or brass wool. Use copious amounts of liquid such as gun cleaning solvent or VERY light oil. Rub gently. The rust you remove is more abrasive than the 0000 steel wool so the liquid is used to flush the rust away.
    If the gun has Waffenampts, the little eagle proof marks the NAZI's used, PLEASE only wipe it off with an oil soaked rag. Take it to a TRUSTED collector. Get advise from them. Be prepared to get an offer to buy. Most hardcore collectors of Lugers and Walthers will want to buy it. It is a family heirloom and you should keep it. You should get advise from several collectors before attempting any sort of restoration to insure you did not finid the one crack pot out there.

    Hold firm on not wanting to sell it. They may offer you a ridiculous price for it and refuse to answer questions after you refuse. I had a similar situation with my Grandfather's Walther PP. Collectors would say "AC code, Made at Walther factory, How much do you want for it? Oh its not for sale? go away."
    Ive been offered over $1000 for it but still not for sale.
     
  8. Kestral

    Kestral New Member

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    All Lugers have good value,treat it with loving care,To remove surface rust use the finest 000 wire wool & plus gas oil or WD 40.you can rub quite hard to remove surface rust.remove grips as usually rust gets underneath & eats away at the grip frame.For full stripping ask at your local gun store for advice if you haven`t stripped one before. regards Kestral
     
  9. yodar

    yodar New Member

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    DANGER Will Robinson! DANGER! Old Luger

    AIEEEEE! Dont put WD-40 on any treasured gun, as residual WD-40 polymerizes into a lacquer like substance. I know many hunters who found their guns glued tight when they got their guns from storage when season begins. On my C & R E-list there widespread condemnation of WD-40
    and C & R Guns

    I have some reservations about removing rust. Yes, I would remove particulate rust, I prefer four ought with Ballistol or Kroil. I HAVE used 3 in one and kerosene but Ballistol works best for my old mausers and leaves a protective film

    Ballistol kept a hurricane flooded toolbox full of Chinese tool free of rust

    These old guns have another kind of rust, some call it patina, which is a general overall pretty brown color and I don't want to remove Patina on any old gun. The gentleman who suggested a good soak is following good technique and KROIL creeps into the tiniest voids, it is so good it kreeps under metal fouling in the the barrel.

    Final comment, when you shoot the pistol, the 1" square plate on the left side of the pistol , if pressed, will fire the gun. I have never done it, but my mentor has.

    yodar
     
  10. Dcomf

    Dcomf New Member

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    I'll throw my opinion into the ring and mention Armadillo Blue Wonder gun cleaner and steel wool as mentioned before. It works outstandingly to remove surface rust and hasn't affected the bluing a bit when I use it.
     
  11. danny

    danny New Member

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    It's a bit hard to find but I've always use copper wool. It'll remove rust but is too soft to scratch steel.
     
  12. fapprez

    fapprez New Member

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    Waht about a copper chore boy? Would that be to harsh?
     
  13. danny

    danny New Member

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    I don't know if the strands are pure copper, copper plated steel, or some blend. I've always used pure industrial copper wool. It's used in the plastics industry to clean tool sets (molds) without scratching. It's probably used elsewhere, too.
     
  14. beeman

    beeman New Member

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    This is a completely fallacious statement. I have fired hundreds upon hundreds of modern 9mm rounds through a variety of Luger PO-8s; most of them through a 1939 PO-8. If there's a serious malfunction with modern pistol ammunition in a Luger it's overwhelmingly likely that it's due to the poor condition of the weapon, not the ammo.

    The original German Army loading for the 9mm pistol round was a 124 gr bullet loaded at 1.169 to 1.173 (round nose) at approximately 1076 fps.

    Standard Winchester "white box" 9mm rounds with the 115 gr FMJ bullet is fine for this type of handgun. This ammo has a mv of 1190 fps. Sellier & Bellot 124 gr FMJ rounds are also a great choice with a fps of 1181 for the mv. Brass cased Blazer is nearly on point with a 124 gr 9mm FMJ with a mv of 1090 fps. Avoid +P or +P+ ammo at all costs. Also stay away from JHPs as they tend to get hung up.

    Firing an older firearm should only be done after it is thoroughly checked by someone competent, preferrably a gunsmith. The condition of the springs and action is key in a smooth running Luger. Of course, this is all a moot point since the original poster said he did not have a permit for this firearm. Possession in NJ of an unregistered/unlicensed handgun is a felony. I'd suggest he start with applying for a license.

    I'm not even going to touch the WD-40/steel wool for cleaning topic. If you are serious go to Jan Still's Luger Forum and research for yourself. If the handgun is in decent shape, rebluing will just about kill any historical value it may have.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  15. Boris

    Boris New Member

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    My observations are from over 30 years as a collector and shooter of the P08, I have handled Lugers from early Imperial to last years of production, I can assure you I am not a one book expert, you are obviously entrenched in your
    view and it's your face if you loose the toggle....enjoy
     
  16. beeman

    beeman New Member

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    I own and actively shoot several Lugers...from mix-n-match shooters to a pristine 1939 42 production and a 1916 DWM artillery piece. I've never had an issue with the properly chosen modern ammo that mimics original PO-8 ammo specs. I've actively researched the issue and have found that modern ammo with the proper sized and weight bullet and measured with medium burning pistol powder with the right muzzle velocity measured by feet pounds per square inch is no different than the original specs for period military specs. Brass is the same diameter, bullets are sized the same, ammo specs are same re: burning speed and muzzle velocity is near identical. Countless other collectors and shooters advocate this stance. Obviously, with my pre-smokeless and older firearms I merely collect and would not shoot. What's missing?

    Not needlessly denigrating your POV, but what do you use when shooting your Lugers? Check Jan Still's Luger Forum as well as a host of other well informed sources of information. I obviously would not jeopardize my safety, well being and a $3k handgun on specious ammo on a whim and unjustified and ignorant opinions. Same with my 1916 1911A1...I use 45ACP ammo with the same bullet and similar curves of powder burning and mv. Similar period piece, similar physics involved. The luger PO-8 is a robust and well-crafted weapon when in good condition.

    You say the pistol is designed for a "gentler age" and therefore I extract that modern ammo is unsuitable for it. What am I missing that you are aware of? I welcome your response Boris.
     
  17. Boris

    Boris New Member

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    At one time in the UK (when I lived there) I had a substanial collection of military and civilian Luger pistols, which ended of course when handguns where banned a few years ago and the collection was broke up...I love the pistol and have shot and collected them for years.

    My point to the chap in question assuming that he had a Luger left to him in the family, and assuming that it was in good order and he wanted to shoot it, my advice was to handload for the pistol. My view is that current powders in manufactured commercial ammunition develope higher pressures that orginal 9mm parabellum ammunition. They may shoot flawlessly over a long period of time, but you are on the outer limits to their tolerance . It would be better to handload. Military 9 mm most certainly should never be used. In the past I have examined at least 7 Lugers where there was toggel separation, 6 where shot with commercial ammunition, the 7th. was with British military 2Z and a very nice M1917 lost it's toggel, the owner lost part of his right ear.....
     
  18. WILDCATT

    WILDCATT New Member

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    luger

    I am with Beeman on this Boris.american ammo is loaded light and a lot of american shooting lugers ad malfunctions becuse there was not enough pressure to activat the joint right.sure that brit ammo was not subgun.I had several lugers in the 194 period and shot one modified to shot 38 acp.3 rds only in mag.whats the difference between 30 mauser and 7.63 x 25?question has nothing to do with luger.only mauser/tokerev and ppsh41.:rolleyes:
     
  19. beeman

    beeman New Member

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    If someone was going to handload ammunition for the PO-8, it's safe to say that they'd be using modern smokeless powder, that being the same powder that'd be in the specific types of ammunition I mentioned (ie Winchester, S&B, Blazer, etc). They'd be reloading to the same specs or very close to the ammuntion the Luger was designed to fire otherwise the ammunition wouldn't cycle the action properly.

    A slow/medium to medium burning handgun powder with a 124 gr FMJ projectile is what was used 60 years ago and what is used today in the ammunition I mentioned (aside from the 115 gr ammunition I mentioned). How would you handload differently?

    The pressure curves and burn rate for the loads I mentioned that are available commercially are well within the safe zone for a Luger. If you use a weak handload, you'll never get the handgun to cycle properly. If you use a hot load, you'll put undue stress on the action.

    With the right ammunition (specifically those I mentioned) and a well-maintained Luger, I would not hesitate a moment to pull the trigger.

    As an FYI, the Brit military ammo you mentioned, the 2Z, might be the Mk IIz, which was developed for submachine guns and approximates the specs for the +P rounds, if not more...definitely a no-no. As I mentioned, +P or +P+ 9mm will lead to problems in an older handgun.

    I don't doubt your first hand experiences. I do trust my Speer and Hornady manuals, the numerous books (Walter's "The Luger Book" is an essential for any collector) and articles I have read on the subjects, the overwhelming opinion of Luger experts and the reload vs commercial/surplus ammo experience and first hand shooting experience I have.

    I agree that reloading is the best, but for a total novice that's a great deal of information to digest and a very expensive proposition for starting up a reloading operation, especially for the occasional shooter.

    So what would your preferred load be for the Luger?