[SGT-MILLER]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sll6oxY0WD0[/ame]



What do you think? These pistols are designed to fire CS gas at an opponent. As far as I know, you cannot use conventional bullets with these pistols.

Useful or useless????

 

[Dillinger]

This is a grey area for me. On the surface I say useless, because it's not ending the threat, it's hopefully delaying it, giving you time to "get away" or put some distance between you and the attacker.

On the other side of that coin, I have purchased 3 of these Kimber LifeAct units for the females in my life ( financee', sister & mother).

Why? If I don't like them would I do that?

A pistol is my first choice, but not everyone is ready to pull a pistol and put it to use. Not everyone is ready to make that final step. If you have a pistol, and don't pull it because you are worried about the consequences, there isn't much point in having the damn thing.

My sister and mother fall into that category. Neither of them are ready to take human life, no matter what the circumstances. They believe in it, they just aren't willing to do it themselves.

My finacee' has both a 1911 and the LifeAct. She always carries the LifeAct because it is allowed EVERYWHERE she could ever go. No one questions her having it, even when her purse is scanned at the office building she works in. ( They have great security there ).

So, I have to vote USEFUL because a pistol and lethal action is NOT for everyone. If you have someone you know can't pull the trigger, having them equipped with something like a CS weapon is better than nothing...

JD

 

[matt g]

This is a grey area for me. On the surface I say useless, because it's not ending the threat, it's hopefully delaying it, giving you time to "get away" or put some distance between you and the attacker.

On the other side of that coin, I have purchased 3 of these Kimber LifeAct units for the females in my life ( financee', sister & mother).

Why? If I don't like them would I do that?

A pistol is my first choice, but not everyone is ready to pull a pistol and put it to use. Not everyone is ready to make that final step. If you have a pistol, and don't pull it because you are worried about the consequences, there isn't much point in having the damn thing.

My sister and mother fall into that category. Neither of them are ready to take human life, no matter what the circumstances. They believe in it, they just aren't willing to do it themselves.

My finacee' has both a 1911 and the LifeAct. She always carries the LifeAct because it is allowed EVERYWHERE she could ever go. No one questions her having it, even when her purse is scanned at the office building she works in. ( They have great security there ).

So, I have to vote USEFUL because a pistol and lethal action is NOT for everyone. If you have someone you know can't pull the trigger, having them equipped with something like a CS weapon is better than nothing...

JD

Well said, my feelings exactly.

 

[c3shooter]

The amount of agent delivered by a pistol caliber arm is generally too small to be effective unless you put it in opponent's mouth. The ones used by correctional officers are 12 guage. Different matter, still limited range, effectiveness. Tell me how well it works on someone stoned on crack or angel dust.

 

[robocop10mm]

Might not be useful against a truely determined attacker. WTS, the psychological aspect of the sound of gunfire with the pain of the gas might make it fairly useful. Not for everyone, but it may have a niche.

 

[SGT-MILLER]

You have to admit, it seemed like it worked on the guy in the video.

Hard to say how it would work against someone hopped up on PCP, looking to main/kill you.

I like the fact that it provides a choice of defense options other then a traditional firearm.

 

[matt g]

You have to admit, it seemed like it worked on the guy in the video.

Hard to say how it would work against someone hopped up on PCP, looking to main/kill you.

I like the fact that it provides a choice of defense options other then a traditional firearm.

You never done PCP have you? It doesn't turn you into the Incredible Hulk like they told you in high school, any more than pot turns you into some deviant baby rapist.

 

[SGT-MILLER]

I've had to subdue someone who was on PCP, and it was a pretty hard task. My friend is an MP, and had to shoot someone on PCP 13 times COM before he went down. PCP is a superman drug. There's a reason they call it the superman drug.

Honestly, no, I've never done PCP. I tend to follow the law, being military and all.

I'll be honest, I'm kinda getting tired of having to defend myself every time I post something on this forum. It seems like most of the posts I've been looking at around here, there is always someone trying to correct someone else. Lets talk about the subject of the thread, and have a good time without having to constently trying to "one-up" someone else.

This is not indictative of a good forum, people.

Anyways, let's stay on topic. Otherwise let's just close this thread down if this turns into another off-topic debate.

 

[Dillinger]

I like the fact that it provides a choice of defense options other then a traditional firearm.

That is pretty much the feeling of the guys around me & in the shop. Some of them have military background, some are Snake Eaters, some have police training & some have no training what so ever.

As a second choice to lethal action, it's better than holding keys in your hand and trying to scrap with someone who is larger, stronger, and probably more aggressive than you ( or your woman ).

Will it put down the Incrediable Hulk? No, probably not - But that is NOT what this product is designed for. No one claims this will make you safe, sound and allow you to just sash-shay away with a basket full of flowers.

You use this product to disrupt the vision, perhaps the equilibrium, perhaps the over aggression level of your attacker. Then you turn and move your little *** out of there, at HIGH speed.

Use as directed - Not as you THINK it's supposed to be applied....

JD

 

[SGT-MILLER]

Hopefully, wherever it's sold it's marketed as a deterrent, and not a stopper.

 

[Dillinger]

Hopefully, wherever it's sold it's marketed as a deterrent, and not a stopper.

Agreed! Misleading information could lead to someone being put in a very bad situation...

JD

 

[slowryde45]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any manufacturers out ther who would knowingly stick their necks on the line and state that this type of product is designed to be a 'stopper'. The law suits would follow very quickly.

As was stated, it is primarily designed as another option to 'deadly force', as a deterrent to escalating threat, and to provide you with time to make an escape or to to turn the hand in your favor. A direct blast to the eyes/nasal/mouth area of most folks or animals would definitely slow down or terminate the aggression, as the aggressor would be in some discomfort.

As JD stated, it has some value in the hands of those who might be a little timid to pull a weapon, or think of using a weapon in a threatening situation. They are easy to use, no need to worry about where the safety is, lining up sights, etc. So for most folks they are a no-brainer to use, which in a panic situation is something that could be life saving.

I would definitely say they are USEFUL, not only for those folks but for many of us. I don't carry as much as I used to, but I would carry something like this if I couldn't carry my regular CW.

As for stopping PCP/dusted monsters, it might not stop the attack, but it would make it very hard for the monster to find you, as he would have a heck of a time trying to see and breath, much less worry about where you went. And sorry, but if it took that many shots to stop someone, then there are definitely some training issues involved. When I went through training, 3 shots became second nature to you. It was automatic, and never failed. Those three, center of mass (heart), head, and pelvic area (groin/hip if you could). Whether or not this would have stopped your friend's PCP superman, I don't know. But I'm pretty sure it would have given him a bad day.

But YES on the gas.

Slo

 

[SGT-MILLER]

Nope..no training issues. All rounds were COM (about an 12-14 inch grouping). Highest round was in the collar bone region, the lowest round was just above the belly button. Good luck trying to hit the head while the target is moving, that's a bad tactic.

In any case, I don't see this gun being popular in the states, it it marketed pretty well in Europe right now.

 

[Dillinger]

At this point I am about ready to ask what difference it makes if one guy, or one Superman for that matter, took several shots to be put down in relation to the thread at hand?

This constant reverting to one person, who may or may not have been shot 13 times and wasn't stopped, in relation to whether or not a gas gun could be applied in a standard, real world application is pretty damn pointless.

Given that example as the Mendoza Line - NOTHING YOU CARRY IS GOING TO BE ENOUGH!

First off, how many people are you encountering, who are on PCP, on a daily basis?

Then, how many of them are intent on doing you harm?

If you answered A LOT to either of those questions, you need to be considering a change of venue, not the purchase of a gas gun, or any other gun for that matter.

JD

 

[Southern6er]

My daughter carries the smaller version for her purse. My wife carries a Taser C2 with her. Both have their use and place.

I try to teach them situational awareness so that if somebody looks 'odd', you can take precautions to keep them out of range before they become a direct threat.

As mentioned, these types of setups DO have their uses. I have no issue with dealing with somebody threatening my family, my wife and daughter are a bit more hesitant on that front. I do NOT want them being unarmed on campus, so they have other options available to them. Neither is ideal, but they are a far cry better than being unarmed and unprepared.

Perhaps in time, I can get my wife comfortable with a handgun. But I'm not pushing that. I'm just trying to find a pistol that she'll feel comfortable shooting, just to get her in that door. Even if she DOES pick up shooting, being a student, she can't carry firearms on campus legally. The Taser and Kimber spray are both legal on campus.

 

[SGT-MILLER]

I'm wondering who sells them in the USA? I've never heard of the gas guns until I started the video and started this thread.

I would think this tool could be marketed really good in place like New York, and whatnot.

 

[Southern6er]

I've seen them for sale on places like Gunbroker. I've seen them in a few gun shops. I purchased mine from a family friend that runs a police outfitter (Ray O'Herron) out of Illinois.

The taser was purchased from a local gun shop as well, which is owned and operated by cops (both current and former).

 

[slowryde45]

Nope..no training issues. All rounds were COM (about an 12-14 inch grouping). Highest round was in the collar bone region, the lowest round was just above the belly button. Good luck trying to hit the head while the target is moving, that's a bad tactic.

In any case, I don't see this gun being popular in the states, it it marketed pretty well in Europe right now.

Only a bad tactic if you are trying that shot first. Usually...one to COM will suffice enough to slow the perp (depending on caliber), allowing a second shot to the head. If you miss that, then the one to the pelvic area will...again, USUALLY,...be enough to stop all forward progress, as it destroys the hip. And no, that isn't from the 'John Wayne' school of fancy shooting

But...I will say that we were 'trained' to shoot that way, only after quite extensive training under a variety of conditions, and with quite an assortment of firearms. For the majority of the population, shooting like your friend did was probably the best scenario, and one that is usually taught. That being, shoot COM until the threat ends, reload, reassess the situation, continue if necessary.

Again, the gas could diffuse the situation enough to not have to resort to deadly force.

Slo

Slo

 

[c3shooter]

A surprising number of states/ cities ban or restrict possession of "less than lethal" weapons- such as stun guns, OC spray, etc. NYPD carries Sabre (blend of pepper spray/ CS) but YOU can't own it in NY. Link to list:http://www.selfdefenseproductsflorida.com/StatesProhibit.html