Full Length small base 5.56 carbide resizing die

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by tinbucket, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. tinbucket

    tinbucket Well-Known Member

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    I've got RCBS 5.56 dies with carbide expander. I've never been entirely satified especially with having to lube and when crimping it reqries miking, adjusting and doing it all over again as the bullets invriably seat too long after crimping.
    Withe the Dillon 650 I look forward to easier loading but it doesn't look like cheaper, and that is why I got into reloading 40 years+ ago.
    The Dillon full size carbide die is at 139.00. I thought RCBS and others offered a full length small base resizing die but haven't found a single listing on the Internet.
    Is anyone making one and who is selling them?
    Thanks
     
  2. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

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    Even with carbide dies, bottle neck cases will still need to be lubed because of the tapers/angles.

     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014

  3. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    Unless you are loading hundreds of thousands of round the Carbide die will do you no good.

    The case still needs to be lubed. The only difference is that the Carbide sizing die can hold up to several thousand rounds a day during commercial production.

    and when crimping it reqries miking, adjusting and doing it all over again as the bullets invriably seat too long after crimping.

    This is another subject and has nothing to do with Carbide sizing dies.

    Please explain you seating and crimping technique/problems in detail and we will surely be able to help you out.
     
  4. saitek

    saitek New Member

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    graf and sons has rcbs small base x die's in stock #38859 sizing die only
    i use the competion seating die ,it's the only way for seating .223 bullet's#37238
     
  5. Bayou

    Bayou Active Member

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    I use a RCBS small base 223 FL sizer die. Works great.

    I would save the exrta $ and not buy a carbide die, as lubrication will still he necessary with bottleneck cases.

    Bayou
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  6. Biohazard2

    Biohazard2 Member

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    Not carbide but,,,,,,
    http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/621875/rcbs-ar-series-small-base-2-die-set-with-taper-crimp-223-remington?cm_vc=ProductFinding
     
  7. tinbucket

    tinbucket Well-Known Member

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    I have RCBS small basee die set. I've loaded many rounds on the RCBS Rockchucker press. I've load some on the Lyman Progressive or lack of progress press, which will remain in a tote box. i don't load thousands of rounds but reduction on lbe or elimantion would be good. I hate trying to get all the lube off. It eems impossible short of spraying with brake cleaner, something which I don't plan on doing to loaded ammo. I've seen speedy exits from weapons with traces, of die lube on the shell casings.The .223 is not that much trouble to load but it takes time to put together say five hundred rounds. that would last me a long time, unless Relatives come over and want to some taarget shooting. The casings are all trimmed to thesme length by a laborious lyman trimming tool. You have to chuck in one turn the rank a few times empty it and do another. when you use Military surplus and other once fired, you don't take a chance. Getting the neck crimped into the cannaluer is maddening sometimes. Load one and seat and crimp and out comes a round that has creeped forward enough that some magazines won't take them past five or ten rounds.
    So it is adjust do anither round and observe and mike and still end up with long rounds. Adjusting the seating/crimping die to just right is never just right. Perhaps I need to inside turn or outside turn as I do some magnum rounds to get a uniform thickness. Seems unlikely, as many manufacturers brass is nto all that uniform to begin with.
     
  8. Bayou

    Bayou Active Member

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    Sounds as though your brasses may not be getting a fairly uniform trim and may be of differing lengths. Perhaps that's why you're having difficulty seating. It sounds as though you may be seating to the cannelure. If that's the case, and the brasses are of differing lengths, then the case over-all length is going to change each time since some brasses are longer and some are shorter.

    If the brasses had a more uniform trim, then once the seating depth is set and locked in on the seating die, the case over-all length should be fairly consistent from one to th next.

    Bayou
     
  9. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Lubing bottleneck brass is a simple process the way I do it. But it is a two step process. I have a separate tool head with only the sizing die installed.

    The cases are sprayed with Dillon spray lube, LIGHTLY, rolled around in a pan, and allowed to dry overnight. (I load .223 in large batches.)

    After sizing, they are tumbled in corncobs to remove the lube I then use the sizing slot in the regular 650 tool head with a universal decapping die to knock out any little pieces of corncob, and load normally.

    The same process works on 7.62 and .30-06 as well.

    The LEE Factory Crimp Die has solved all of my crimping issues.
     
  10. anm2_man

    anm2_man Member

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    Ouch - Nobody talking about trimming ?

    I also process .223/.308/30-06 on a Dillon 650. If you measure your cases after sizing, then no problem. Cases less that the max trim length are used, the others need to be trimmed. And if your using a Small base die, the brass stretches even MORE !. Over the years I've observed that after sizing with a standard sizing die, once shot brass, only 40% on the average require trimming. Using a small base die, that average reverses 60% require trimming. Because I do alot of brass, I just run all brass thru the Trimmer. The Trimmer is always set at the max trim length, and if the brass needs trimming, it gets gets trimmed, if not it still goes in the trimmer station but doesn't get trimmed.

    My 650 is setup where all brass gets lubed.

    First pass, station 1 - sizing/decaping die, station 2 - GS swager (for those pesky crimped cartridges), station 3 - Dillon trimmer/size die, station 5 - lee universal flaring die (It makes it easier to insert flat based projectiles in the brass).

    They then get cleaned in corn cob.

    Second pass, station 1 - Universal decaping died, station 2 - prime and powder charge, station 3 - Powder check, station 4 - set projectile, station 5 - crimp (removes the flare).

    All sizing dies are standard, except for .308. Since the .308 brass can be used in a bolt gun + 1919a4 + semi-auto's, I use a Small base die. Its easier to inventory the brass and make it work in all 3 platforms.

    Hope this info helps.
     
  11. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I run each case through a Forster case gauge. If over max, I trim to minimum. Generally, I trim about every 4th loading. The "Factory crimp die" is very forgiving of minor variations in case length. MINOR!:D
     
  12. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i do not crimp bottleneck cartridges.

    straight wall cases only get a crimp enough to return the case mouth to the original sized diameter.

    bullets are held in by friction of the case mouth not the crimp. cleaning the inside of the case mouth of lube is critical to this function.

    i use carbide expander balls so i dont have to lube the inside necks.

    crimping bottlenecks can easily cause the case mouth to lose tension on the bullet resulting in longer bullet runout or setback due to lack of friction.

    needing a heavy crimp on heavy recoil rounds or tube feeds is a myth. if you do crimp be sure your using the correct crimp for the bullet. cannelures are for roll crimping bullets without roll crimps should be taper crimped only.

    crimping is the biggest misunderstood myth riddled part of ammunition loading i can think of.
     
  13. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    You forgot it include the third and most effective crimp for Bottle necked rifle rounds, The Lee Factory Crimp die. It is not a taper crimp or a roll crimp but a collet type crimp.

    The LFCD not only helps secure the bullets (Cannelure or no-cannelure) it improves accuracy in my semi-auto loads.

    Here is a little test. Three rifles, three different cartridges, 50 rounds each. All three showed improved accuracy with the use of the LFCD.

    http://www.accuratereloading.com/crimping.html
     
  14. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    I'll have to try it.
     
  15. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You'll like it!:)
     
  16. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Next midway or brownells order I'll get one in 223 as I've got a lot chamber for that cartridge
     
  17. Bayou

    Bayou Active Member

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    I use a Lee FCD on every caliber I reload. They work great. I bought all of them off eBay. I no longer use the crimp ring in the seater dies.

    Bayou
     
  18. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    Just don't over do it like this guy and Speer.

    [​IMG]

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