Fuel storage and aquisition

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by tinbucket, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. tinbucket

    tinbucket Well-Known Member

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    If North Korea, or Russia or China decides to attack us, I think most people assume the missiles will hit a patch of sand in the desert, or Washington and Military bases.
    The last two for sure but first they would, imo, take out America's fuel production and Electric generating stations.
    Without fuel, America shuts down.
    Right now we are pumping the most crude in our history, but our reserves are near the bottom,since they decided to let the Global Oil Cabal export crude again.
    Prices are forecast to hit 3.00 by summer, not taking into consideration new fuel taxes, Washington is considering.
    That is straining the Pocketbooks of Americans,as many/most Americans don't live in the cities and must drive at east a hundred miles for anything.
    But back to the subject. If the fuel stops America stops.
    Some here have mentioned they have some storage in use or available.
    A lot more of us don't.
    It is only logical that we identify and obtain long term fuel storage, or every day use as well as an it happens.
    So what are some good ideas for us with little to no money, and what vehicles to obtain, since there are few to none MB Jeeps around?
     
  2. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    gasoline with ethanol will go stale very quickly, and even treating it is really only a short term fix. studies have shown that storing gasoline in plastic storage containers, the fuel will go stale quicker than in a steel storage container. next best method is to find gasoline that doesn't contain ethanol. it can be found, but it's usually a little higher per gallon.

    and how much fuel are your going to store? the larger the quantity, the more problems you will have. since many times a larger fuel storage container will have to be outside, in the weather. and the larger the container, the higher the incidence of condensation becoming a problem with outside storage with temperature changes and such. and even if you are trying to store gasoline in smaller storage containers, the more you have sitting inside your garage, or shop, or whatever, becomes it's own set of dangers from being a huge fire hazard. gasoline is extremely volatile and dangerous. even static electricity can ignite the vapors.

    so unless you have the proper place and storage containers for longer term fuel storage, definitely not a good idea for many reasons.
     
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  3. SRK97

    SRK97 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    While not a large amount, i keep 2 2.25 (one gas/oil one straight gas) gallon cans of gas in the toolbox of my truck. Both are non ethanol, and the un mixed can has stabil 365 in it. Basicly gives me an extra 25 miles of range
     
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  4. RJF22553

    RJF22553 Well-Known Member

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    Have six 5-gallon gas cans, three 2.5-gallon gas cans, and three 5-gallon diesel cans. All plastic, all stored outside (but under a shelter), and the gas all polluted with ethanol (still working on a reasonable place to get non-ethanol gas). Gas is for the mowers and our Kawasaki Mule, snowblower, and stump grinder. All get treated with Stabil Marine as soon as I get home from filling them up. I have never fired it up, but also have a 5kw generator that uses gas. My Explorer could use that gas - in a pinch; my wife's Subaru Forester XT - not so much (requires Premium!). In the spring-fall seasons, the 37+ gallons of gas last about 2-3 weeks (about 20 acres of mowing).

    Diesel is for our two tractors and for me to start fires in our 7' diameter 3' high burn ring. I get it from the local gas station, so has Cetane and is low-sulfur. Not sure how long it will last, but in the spring-fall seasons, 15 gallons lasts us about two weeks.

    We have a whole-house 35kw generator connected to a 500-gallon underground propane tank.

    We keep the 5-gallon gas cans topped off, except one used for fueling up the Mule, so there is little condensation to worry about.

    Next door neighbor has a 250-gallon above ground gasoline tank that they have refilled by Southern States. I MAY do the same, since Southern States does have non-ethanol gas. It is much pricier since there is a delivery charge...Still debating...
     
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  5. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    even treating gasoline with ethanol, it will still go stale. takes longer, but it still happens. even non-ethanol gasoline will go stale, even if treated. you have to look at gasoline as having a freshness shelf life in months, not years. even if it's treated with stabilizer.

    another one i have learned as well. for some reason, small engines, like mowers, generators, ect., seem to be more affected by the degraded fuel quality than vehicles that we drive. not for sure, but it could be that many of the newer ones are designed to run on certain amount of ethanol content in the gasoline, and that the computers are are able to make changes to be able to compensate for the fuel quality.

    lets delve into diesel! diesel has it's own sets of problems, but it seems to handle being stored for longer time periods than gasoline. it too needs to be treated, usually with a biocide to keep algae from growing in it. any measure of water, or moisture in diesel, you will have algae in your diesel and it will cause running issues for the equipment. and it also depends upon the age of the vehicle or the equipment a to the quality of the diesel being used. many of the newer diesels, fuel quality is very important. older equipment, not so much. usually the worst scenario with them, are the fuel filters. replace them and all is good to go again. newer equipment and vehicles, the fuel needs to be extremely clean, and kept clear of any moisture, or water in the diesel.

    above ground fuel storage? well, as you can imagine, it's usually going to be outside! where it's subject to every weather and temperature swing that happens. so it will get condensation. how do you stop it from getting condensation? best way is to keep it ull to the max and not allow it any room for it to form. but that just isn't always possible if you are using it and the levels on the tank are moving up and down. so, the next method is to treat the fuel, and to have a fuel filter, and a water separator on the storage tank to deal with the moisture, water and debris in the tank. with most above ground fuel storage tanks, they feed by gravity. so the fuel is not under pressure. so when the filters get clogged, the fuel delivery will trickle, instead of flowing. so keeping filters on hand would be critical.
     
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  6. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Propane lasts longer. Lower powered and a pain in the arse to use for vehicles, but it works.

    Bicycles last forever with a minimal amount of maintenance.

    Best answer, vote conservative Republican and avoid the war that weakness will surely cause.
     
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  7. Greg_r

    Greg_r Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Dallas. Gasoline with ethanol goes stale fairly quickly. Non-ethanol gas less so. I keep 3 five gallon containers of gasoline. Ethanol free gas. I use it in my outdoor power equipment (mowers, outboard motor, Farmall). As I use a 5 gallon can, I refill it, so I about always have about 10-12 gallons on hand. During the summer months I use about 5 gallons or so a week, much less in the winter.

    I just carry in my cars what they hold. And I run them down to 1/4 tank before I fill them. At one time I had a 3 hour daily commute. My little Scion would get me 34 mpg. A tank would last me 2 1/2 days. However I topped it daily. Never got below 3/4 of a tank. After a while I started getting 28-29 mpg. Put it in the shop and nothing improved. There was nothing wrong with the car. When the mechanic found out I was keeping the tank full, he asked me to run it to the empty mark. I did and within a week the mpg was back to 34. The gas in the tank had gone stale.

    We have an above ground gravity feed tank on the farm. 75 gallons IIRC. It was filled regularly to keep the tank topped to ward off condensation. We no longer farm, but lease out the farming rights. It is used to hold diesel now. Would not do me and good anyways. It's an hour from me and I own no diesel powered equipment.
     
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  8. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I keep five gallons of gas for the lawnmower. I mowed today so I am down to two gallons; does that count?

    People obsess over the strangest ****. If we get hit by a nuclear attack the last thing you are going to need to worry about is gas for your truck.

    If N.K. tossed us a nuke, and we responded in kind, the next thing you would be seeing is China in full launch mode, we would respond, then Russia would go into full launch mode, then the Europeans would get in on it. If that happens you won't need to be driving anywhere because there will not be anywhere left to go.

    Your best bet is to pray for sane leadership. (Apparently somebody hasn't been praying hard enough)
     
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  9. tinbucket

    tinbucket Well-Known Member

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    Don't be such a doomsayer.
    If they nuke Galveston area, we would get some radiation.If all out nuclear war, nearest targets 600 miles away.
    Yes devastation and radiation would be a problem for a long time. Electronics and communication systems would be gone in major areas.
    We would have to live like my Grand Mother and before.
    Us Old Folks would be in a world of hurt beyond young adults.
    We will have to teach our kids to survive and thrive and hard work will be a new norm.
    If you have some farm land, and diesel tractor that is great but horses and mules might become necessary.
    Who knows what the extent will be. Might even have Chinese and everyone else having to be fought off, in our neck of the woods.
    I have no real idea.
    Storage of fuel, some acetone and other chemicals, to freshen it and so on.
    Hopefully Washington will get some smarts and take measures to secure our strategic assets such as fuel etc, instead of exporting our oil and letting the Global Oil Cabal, manipulate our supply and price.
     
  10. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    [QUOTE="Chainfire, post: 1910987, member: 10411"


    If N.K. tossed us a nuke, and we responded in kind, the next thing you would be seeing is China in full launch mode, we would respond, then Russia would go into full launch mode, then the Europeans would get in on it. If that happens you won't need to be driving anywhere because there will not be anywhere left to go.

    )[/QUOTE]

    I believe you are making invalid assumptions.China will not to go a nuclear war over North Korea. Neither will Russia.

    Their leaders may be crooked, but they're not suicidal.

    If NK hits our interests with a nuke, the Russians and Chinese will EXPECT us to respond in kind.
    They will lodge a formal protest at the U.N. and that will be the end of it.

    Why would they commit suicide over NK????
     
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  11. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    And what are you going to do with the gas? Kind of goes against the grey man theorem, don't draw attention to yourself.

    I buy AVGAS for the generator and lawn equipment. It is stable for much longer than even real gas.
     
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  12. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe you are making invalid assumptions.China will not to go a nuclear war over North Korea. Neither will Russia.

    Their leaders may be crooked, but they're not suicidal.

    If NK hits our interests with a nuke, the Russians and Chinese will EXPECT us to respond in kind.
    They will lodge a formal protest at the U.N. and that will be the end of it.

    Why would they commit suicide over NK????[/QUOTE]

    Do you think that China would sit still and wait to see where the missles coming across the pole were going to hit? How do you think the Chinese government would feel about American made fallout drifting on their people? Do you think that China would cede power to the US just across their borders?

    North Korea is China's fall-guy, their plausible denialabilty to stick fingers in the eyes of the US government. Either NK does what China demands, or they are the ones to commit national suicide.

    Think of China's potential reaction to a missle launch like this: You were one of five men, standing shoulder to shoulder, 200 yards from a rifle shooter. He is pointing the gun toward the group, but you think he is probably aiming at one of the other guys. Do you stand your ground and hold your fire or do you try to get off the first shot?

    There are no winners in any kind of nuclear exchange.
     
  13. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    Nuclear war is a threat but even full out war is survivable for many Americans. But that is different subject.
    As for gas most all stabilizers are just methanol the exception is PRI-G.
    Storing gas underground makes it last longer because there is much less temperature variations. Some people store gas in old propane tanks. If filled to the top the fuel does not access to air which makes it last longer.
    In a no-fuel scenario, any moving vehicle would be a target for many people. But fuel stored for generators, chainsaws, etc could be a very handy thing for any long lasting no-fuel scenario and in the country no one would know you had it if you were reasonably careful in its use.
    Other than local short-term events none of us will likely have to worry about long-term fuel storage.
     
  14. Dearhunter

    Dearhunter Supporting Member Supporter

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    I just keep a empty five gallon can and a kentucky credit card!:D (five foot hose)
     
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  15. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    one of the main reasons for people going to avgas was that it was leaded gas, with usually a higher octane rating. some still is leaded, but like anything else, they have lowered the amounts of lead in the gasoline, along with moving towards removing all of it completely by the near future.

    and being able to buy avgas, depends upon the airport. our local airport would sell avgas, up until about twenty years ago when it was bought by new owners, and that unless you owned a plane, they wouldn't sell it to you.
     
  16. tinbucket

    tinbucket Well-Known Member

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    I believe you are making invalid assumptions.China will not to go a nuclear war over North Korea. Neither will Russia.

    Their leaders may be crooked, but they're not suicidal.

    If NK hits our interests with a nuke, the Russians and Chinese will EXPECT us to respond in kind.
    They will lodge a formal protest at the U.N. and that will be the end of it.

    Why would they commit suicide over NK????[/QUOTE]
    It looks like China may take over North Korea....a new province and ....., based, on China moving three hundred thousand more troops to the border with North Korea. I my math is right that is now about a half million troops there.
    President Trump asked China to help, or as the Chinese see invited them and begged them to solve the problem. Solve it they will by marching in and taking over.
    They suppose they can make South Korea a client state, or another Hong Kong.
    This would be absolutely the worse scenario, or the US, South Korea, North Korea and the world. It would be an operations base to expand into the Arctic, off shore of Alaska where they are already present , and take claim to oil and mineral deposits on the ocean floor, like Obama let the Russians do.
     
  17. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is another option that would give country people unlimited fuel for vehicles, it is a proven system that worked all over the world during WWII. A charcoal burner producing acetylene gas to run a vehicle. It was a common scene in Europe when rationing was in effect. Build a charcoal burner and forget storing gasoline.

    Not that you would have anywhere to go. The post office won't work, the minute markets won't have beer, and you couldn't pick up girls at the bar.. so what is the point?
     
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  18. jigs-n-fixture

    jigs-n-fixture Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    The high atmosphere EMP, will destroy everything with integrated circuits. Unless you have, a pre-seventies, engine with just points, condenser, and coil, you won’t be able to use gasoline for anything besides fire starting.
     
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  19. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The point is that there aint a-gonna be no atomic attack on these here nunited states Bubba!

    If the little fat man does use his nukes, he'll likely hit Guam, or Japan.

    But I think before that happens, the Chinese will step on him like a June bug.
     
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  20. Viking

    Viking Well-Known Member

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    I have non-ethanol 93 Octane from 2014, treated with Stabil, stored in 5 gallon plastic containers, still smells like new and runs great, it's mainly for chainsaw, weedeater and generator. I've stored fuel like this over 5 years and had no hint of varnish, which is what happens when gasoline ages. Stabil is good stuff, but the way fuel is stored also helps, cool temps, low temp swings and stored in a dry place certainly makes a difference.
     
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