FTF out of state private sale question???

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by getem2011, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. getem2011

    getem2011 New Member

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    I know this subject has been beaten to death but I have to ask. I am in IL and considering selling a gun to a resident in Indiana. We both would like to do it face to face and have been told it is ok to do so (maybe he just said that because the less the government knows the better). I have also heard that any out of state transfer must go through ffl's. Could I drive to his state and transfer the gun to him through an ffl? Oh and Im sure I will get a beating for this one but he is also 20 years old. I know it is legal to sell and buy handguns privately as long as your 18 but am unsure about out of state sales.


    I will be calling the state police tomorrow but wanted any input from those who have experience with out of state sales.

    Getem
     
  2. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    The laws vary state to state.For instance, Nevada recognizes bordering states as legal to do a FTF transfer, but CA does not. I cannot legally purchase a gun in Nevada without transferring through an FFL because of CA state law. But an Idaho resident can. Check with both states.
     

  3. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Because you posted this in the handgun section....

    I would advise against it at the buyer is 20. Must be 21 to purchase a handgun (even if private).
     
  4. Old_Crow

    Old_Crow New Member

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    I would go by the book. If the gun is used in a crime 20 years from now this could come back to haunt you. At his end if it's not a legal sale and the gun is stolen his insurance won't pay.
     
  5. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Huh? Federal law does not address FTF sales. It is illegal for an FFL holder to sell a hangun to a 20 year old. FTF is different. State law may address this. In Texas, for instance, it is legal to sell a handgun to an 18 year old, FTF

    And, what "book" are you referring to? If the gun is used in a crime 20 years from now, someone may come knocking (more likely a phone call) inquiring about the gun. A simple handwritten bill of sale will satisfy the inquiry.

    What insurance company is going to demand proof the gun was "legally" aquired? All they ask for is proof you actually owned the gun. How the heck are they going to determine legality of a sale? Are you going to have to provide a copy of the 4473? That is just ridiculous.
     
  6. drvsafe

    drvsafe New Member

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    Probably why it makes sense to do it thru an FFL since they will have legal records of the sale as well as the NICS call to boot. But that may just be the New Jersey in me talking.
     
  7. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    STOP. In this case, Federal law DOES address face to face sales. As a Federal alw, will apply to all states.

    If you are a private citizen, not a FFL, you may ONLY transfer ownership a firearm to a fellow resident of your state, or to a FFL in any state. The one exception is transfer by inheritance. This is in 18 US Code Section 922 (long read) Do NOT confuse a FTF sale with the provisions for a Dealer to make a long gun sale at his licensed premises to a resident of another state. He is a dealer and can. You ain't, and can't. Period.



    You CAN deliver to a FFL in the recipient's state, and have the FFL make the transfer. However, if that person cannot legally buy a gun, you cannot legally transfer one to him either. To do a FTF across a state line, you are committing a Federal felony. Investigated and prosecuted by the ATF. Not the best move in the world.
     
  8. silverado113

    silverado113 New Member

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    C3 hit the nail on the head! Follow that!
     
  9. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    Wrong. Familiarize yourself with ATF regs.



    OP. You may not sell to a out of state resident UNLESS it is though a licensed dealer.

    So, YES, you may drive to Indiana, meet him at a gunshop, and transfer through them.


    Also, keep in mind this is posted on a public forum... the feds constantly parouse them for illegal activity.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  10. silverado113

    silverado113 New Member

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    From the ATF website:

    Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?

    A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

    Not to mention who know what the laws in IL say. Which I believe have to be through an FFL even if it's a private sale, but I could be wrong there.
     
  11. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    And since he is not 21 I don't think an ffl will do the transfer if it is for a handgun.
     
  12. drvsafe

    drvsafe New Member

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    +1 on that...
     
  13. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    This is also from the BATF website:
    2. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to a friend who resides in a different State?
    Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov and http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html. The GCA provides an exception from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes. Thus, for example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting. Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent. See 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5).

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf

    Because we are talking a handgun and the buyer is under 21, this is why I suggested against doing the deal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  14. getem2011

    getem2011 New Member

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    yaaaaa so I have been doing some thinking and will not be going through will the deal......I appreciate all the insight you have provided. Willfully armed, you are right. Not only that but I am also a law abiding citizen who does not believe in breaking the law.

    Thanks again,

    Getem

    C3- you did nail it.
     
  15. JD1969

    JD1969 New Member

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    You are wrong. We can do FTF sales here in IL, we do not have to go through an FFL.
     
  16. silverado113

    silverado113 New Member

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    Wow I'm surprised they let the commoners do that.