Front Sight Firearms Institute

Discussion in 'Nevada Gun Forum' started by mudpupp, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. mudpupp

    mudpupp New Member

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    Anyone a member, plan on or want to be a member?

    Have you checked out the iPhone / iPad app?

    There onsite ammo guys a very reasonable and so much easier than traveling with a trunk full of ammo...
     
  2. mes227

    mes227 New Member

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    I'm a member but haven't been yet. Making my first trip with a friend in April for the 4-day defensive handgun course. Do you have prices for the on-site ammo? If not, how do I go about getting prices? We are dealing with that issue now, trying to figure out how best to have 1,200 rounds of .45acp when we arrive (currently looking to having it dropped shipped by CheaperThanDirt to the hotel). Happy to keep the money local if the prices are right.

    Didn't know they had an app, thanks for the heads up. Just found it and am downloading to my 4s.
     

  3. mudpupp

    mudpupp New Member

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  4. mes227

    mes227 New Member

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  5. mudpupp

    mudpupp New Member

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    Enjoy your class.

    If you know anyone or meet anyone there that needs a DIAMOND level membership, tell them to send me a message. I can hook them up cheap...

    Try to get your hotel reservations in Pahrump as early as possible too.

    Be safe and shoot straight

    Mud
     
  6. rbmorris

    rbmorris New Member

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    Pahrump has a Wal Mart
     
  7. mudpupp

    mudpupp New Member

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    If it is like any of the Las Vegas walmarts, the ammo racks are empty.

    Thanks to barrack obutthead, the prices are up, production down and hoarding is in full swing.
     
  8. mes227

    mes227 New Member

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    Well, not to defend Obama, but hoarding is our personal decision, and the primary reason prices are up is because commodities are up. For example, copper skyrocketed from a low of $0.58 per pound to $4.50 on Bush's watch, then actually came down a little (to the high $3.00s) during Obamas. That's what happens when we fight two wars of choice.
     
  9. mudpupp

    mudpupp New Member

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    Then why didn't the price of ammo take off and the hoarding begin till Nov 2008?
     
  10. mes227

    mes227 New Member

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    As I said, hoarding is a personal decision and hardly anyone's fault but the hoarders (and the blogs they read). As to copper price, it actually reached it's historic high in Aug-Sept 2008, so there's a close correlation between metal price and ammo price, as one would expect. The price then dropped in 2009, but it bottomed at 4 times what it was just a few years before, but by then hoarding had taken over. Then copper price started to climb again and by last 2010 had reached even new highs. Some examples. After the year the 1st number is the price per pound for copper, the 2nd number is the Producer Price Index (average wholesale price) for "Small Arms Ammunition" as published by the US Bureau of Labor Stats:

    Jun 1999 $0.60, 124
    Jan 2006 $2.15, 127
    Jan 2007 $2.50, 140
    Jan 2008 $3.00, 180
    Sep 2008 $4.10, 188

    These are shown on the graph. The top one is copper price v. year, the bottom one the PPI for the same time frame. While the correlations are imperfect they are very close. It's clear to me why the price went up in 2008, and probably was mostly due to metal prices and only slightly influenced by hoarding. I work in mining and all input costs skyrocketed during the period - at roughly the same rate as ammo. I didn't take the time to track the oil prices (the other main input into ammunition prices, because it influences both production (from metal smelting to assembling ctgs) and distribution, but the global crude prices also rose sharply in this period, closely tracking copper price (or visa versa).

    The recent climb, though, is not so clear. Metal prices have gone down but ammo prices rose 10%. I believe (but have no evidence to support) that this is mostly hoarding since the other main inputs, oil and labor, have either been about flat (oil) or flat to declining (labor). This conclusion is supported by the many (though mostly antidotal) reports of gun and ammo hoarding. I'm sure there are stats available, I just haven't dug in enough to find them.

    Graphs: Top, Copper price v. year. Bottom, Ammunition producer price index v. year.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. mudpupp

    mudpupp New Member

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    While I still disagree as to the hoarding issue, I must say that your response was extremely well thought out and concise. I appreciate the great detail and effort you put in to it and think you deserve a thumbs up
     
  12. mes227

    mes227 New Member

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    Thanks. Digging up the stats was an interesting excersize and caused me to amend my belief regarding the most recent ammo price increase - can't be caused by metal prices since those are down, so much be another factor. I plan to look into the hoarding issue a bit, see what stats are available.
     
  13. kewldevil1

    kewldevil1 New Member

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    The price of copper has very little to do with the war. More effected by the events in Japan and china. Prices were so low with bush because china flooded the market with copper and there was a surplus for a while be4 they started rebuilding. I had close to 1000 pounds of scrap wire when the prices went up. Talk about a payday.
     
  14. kewldevil1

    kewldevil1 New Member

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    Is the legacy membership wort it?
     
  15. mudpupp

    mudpupp New Member

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    It is a great membership, but...

    Members like myself could sell you an All Inclusive Diamond Level Membership (Top Level)
    http://www.frontsight.com/diamond-membership.asp
    For about 1/4 the current foreclosed on specials.

    The last e-mail from Frontsight is offering foreclosed in Legacy memberships for $1,995.00

    Good for 11 classes

    Diamond level is for every class.
     
  16. kewldevil1

    kewldevil1 New Member

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    I'm moving to Vegas so I'm thinking about becoming a member because I'll be able to take courses whenever I want. How much for the diamond level?
     
  17. mudpupp

    mudpupp New Member

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    Pm or email me
     
  18. mudpupp

    mudpupp New Member

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    Deal of a Lifetime!


    Membership that is...
     
  19. kewldevil1

    kewldevil1 New Member

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    Yea but 100 grand for diamond even at a 1/4 off thats 25 grand. U do get a Rolex tho. Lol At that rate I mine as well join the presidential club in vegas also. That place looks sweet.
     
  20. mudpupp

    mudpupp New Member

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    No silly.. 1/4th the price of the $1,995

    Total $500

    That's why it's such a deal