Friend's experience really made me think

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by ScottA, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    One of our friends has a daughter who is special needs. The daughter is a senior in high school, 19 years old. A few weeks ago, she was at church with a young man who was paying a lot of attention to her. I commented to her that if the guy shows up a church again one of the men should corner him and ask what his intentions are (no father in the picture).

    Anyway, we ran into our friend at Walmart yesterday and heard the rest of the story. Turns out the guy is special needs as well, although you wouldn't notice it up front. He was probably 6, 2 and pretty fit. The guy invited mother and daughter over for dinner to meet his mother. Daughter was very excited about the idea. When they got there, his mom was not there. He proceeded to "notify" our friend that he was in love with her daughter and wanted mom to leave daughter with him so they could start their life together... that night. Things went south from there. They essentially had to escape as best they could after getting trapped. Eventually, others in the building helped intervene and the police were called.

    Mom and daughter made it home. Daughter got her eyes opened and now wants nothing to do with guy, although it appears she was complicit to some extent in the original plan.

    So here's what has been bothering me. I took notice of this kid when I saw him. Had I been in her position, I would have likely drawn on him. However, she was able to get herself and her daughter out of the situation without escalation. Albeit, she is a very experienced foster parent who is used to dealing with troubled and special needs kids.

    It really has me wondering, what would have been the right course of action.
     
  2. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    My take:

    It's situational dependent. Instinct and intuition always take precedence, based on observation and, finally, resulting in reaction.

    This is why I don't set myself up by doing these speculative scenarios. I take everything for face value at first, then reassess as things go. Yet to lead me astray...

    My experiences tell me little is predictable when it comes to the mind and actions of another. Guess work and a little luck usually do the trick, as long as this is rule is understood and respected.

    Who's to know what would've resulted had someone like the sort in here been there. I'd like to think the same thing, but it's likely things would've escalated. And who's to say that wouldn't've still yielded the same end?

    Too many variables, but thumbs up for momma indeed!
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013

  3. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    Mark the CALLENDAR... Tack agrees with BTB! ;)

    The situation will dictate and while her "firing" on a 6'2" special needs guy would not be questioned... a grand jury may look quite differently on one of us, particularly us Vets, doing exactly the same thing.

    I do however think that most of us would exhaust every possible option before choosing to introduce a gun into the equation unless Mr. Crackers went for a weapon.

    Tack
     
  4. SigArmored

    SigArmored New Member

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    Definitely a situation.Being armed is truly a responsibility that requires us to check every avenue.I as a citizen with a weapon must be sure there is no other way out but to protect myself with my last resort option.
     
  5. Colby

    Colby New Member

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    The mother's course of action were certainly correct.
    You said the guy was "special needs". that implies that he was likely a little "off" mentally and somewhat "slow" in his thinking and reasoning. You cannot use a gun on someone like that. That type person is likely to have a completely different view of guns and a different perception and "reality" of guns and their actual lethality.

    You must use different techniques to end the situation. The mother did in this case. She wisely negotiated - but she could have had to use a manual self defense technique, if the negotiation/manipulation techniques failed.

    The gun carry person really should have training in other types of self defense techniques - so that he has options in self defense. He doesn't just go "bang" at whatever comes up. Manual techniques.
    There are self defense techniques out there that can be learned. I don't mean the white robe with a colored belt type - where people line up on lines and deliver strikes at cooperating subjects.
    There are real street type techniques that can be learned - for up close and very personal self defense. I have done this myself - it can be done and it can be learned.
     
  6. gilfo

    gilfo Member

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    Bring back the mental hospitals. When I was growing up there were few if any people like him on the streets. Seems today there are alot of special needs people walking the streets that should not be.
     
  7. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    Even a blind squirrel gets a nut now and then. Question is who's the squirrel and who's the nut? Lol
     
  8. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    Thank Bill Clinton! Or Hillary, depending on who think was actually pulling the strings. ;P
     
  9. MattShlock

    MattShlock New Member

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    I agreed up to this point Colby. Drawing doesn't ALWAYS mean 'shoot,' however, it probably should. Escalating a serious physical confrontation by degrees is questionable and if the outcome is doubtful it is downright stupid. There is a chance that brandishing a firearm may forestall a deadly conflict when it is just at the point of pulling the trigger. But someone else may not react the way you expect rational people to and the action must be seen through to its final, regretable but necesary, conclusion.

    Pulling a gun and shooting someone always has to be the last, possible, option, but it is not a decision the shooter makes. Not really. It is a decision someone else has made for them. Reasonable people make reasonable decisions. Unreasonable people, like criminals, get themselves shot. Though people here seem to talk a little bloodthirsty I have a high degree of confidence they'd all do exactly the right thing (well, with Dango maybe the jury's still out). Remember this:

    you are not worth more than someone else, but you certainly aren't worth any less.
     
  10. Dizzll

    Dizzll New Member

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    I constantly see these posts which state the bad guy is 6'2"+ and 200lbs+ as if that is a reason to draw your weappon. You have to ask yourself, are you a man? Unbelieveable how afraid people are. If you are in a situation and they aren't violent and there are no weapons presented you will go to jail. Learn to fight, or better situational awareness. I'm 6'2" 240lbs and I have beat the crap out of 300 pounders and been laid out by a dude who was about 170. Size alone doesn't didctate an armed response...
     
  11. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have also been a foster parent and even adopted four girls out of the foster care program. My youngest daughter is also "special needs." She is way below average intelligence and will likely need long term care when she grows up. I hope she finds lifelong love and companionship with someone who is capable of independent living. If I were in that situation, I would be extremely firm. I would hear his proposal and agree to discuss it with his parents and make sure he understood that we were leaving but would schedule a future date. Then hope the future would blossom.
     
  12. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    One of the characteristics of pilots is an almost ritualistic study of other's accident reports. Through such we hope to think through many different scenarios so that when we encounter something similar, we can react faster with an appropriate response. I think there's value to the same idea here.

    My point being my friend was at a definite disadvantage. I would have considered myself as well. I have no illusions that I'm a physical match for a kid half my age and in much better shape.
     
  13. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    You are to be commended for what you do. May you be richly blessed.
     
  14. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  15. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    No question in my mind! ;)

    Should we conduct and FTF poll :D

    Tack
     
  16. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    Do it!!!!!!! Lol
     
  17. BeyondTheBox

    BeyondTheBox New Member

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    There's always exceptions to a rule, I'm just extremely anti preconceived notions in general. But any theory has holes when taken in different contexts. ; D
     
  18. RichNH

    RichNH New Member Supporter

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    From the way the incident was described it isn't clear they were in danger of death or grave bodily harm, much less imminent danger of such. The fact that it was a woman and the threat was a fairly large man does make a difference, that disparity plays in favor of the woman making it more reasonable to consider the threat deadly force even if he was unarmed.

    If it was an average, out-of-shape, middle-age father there with his daughter, and the guy didn't have a weapon, he'd be in serious danger of prosecution/indictment if he pulled a gun (i.e., used deadly force.)

    All that said, holding you there against your will could be interpreted as kidnapping, and my understanding is you always have the right to protect yourself if someone is attempting to kidnap you.
     
  19. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It worked out well BUT it is nice to have access to a PPD if it don't!!!!;)
     
  20. jyo

    jyo New Member

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    So hard to tell whats going on with special needs kids---the kid could have just been simple-minded and thought he had found his mate and was doing all he could to make it happen---kinda sad story really...
    I got to observe a bunch of special needs kids who were put into a "Home" for kids when the parents could not handle them no more. My wife is a pro musician who was part of a band that visited this home for a concert. Really, REALLY sad to see these poor kids trying to understand life and all the growing-up hormones that happens in the early teens. But there were rays of light for some of them. I watched a skinny young guy being picked-on by other less messed-up kids---in a flash his "girlfriend" appeared and was ready to kick their asses---she took him by the hand and led him away while promising death and destruction to those guys if they messed with "her man." I thought it was kinda cute...