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Discussion Starter #1
I went to the range last night with my PWS MK114 AR to zero the MBUS and plink about.

I got great results on the zero @25 yds. the problem is that while my range allowed me to zero my rifle with 55 grain FMJ they won't let me shoot it regularly. they had come 4s grain frangible to shoot, which I didn't think much of until I used them and came up with a 10% FTF rate. PWS claimed it's most likely the shape and size of the bullet itself, which is markedly lighter and smaller and a different shape.

Their suggestion was a 52-55 grain frangible round and the PWS will eat them up.

Anyone with a suggestion for this, 52-55 grain frangible .223 ammunition?

thanks in advance...:rolleyes:
 

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drvsafe,

There is also two types of frangible out there. The powdered sintered metal and copper bonded. FTF with frangible is a common situation unless you have excellent M-4 Feed Ramps on your rifle. If you get a chance to look at a Rock River CAR A4 or similar tactical rifle check out the ramps. If your rifle has the M-4 type feed ramps they can be polished with very fine polishing tips like the ones made by Cratex! I use the medium grade polishing tips. You do not want to remove metal just polish the ramps. Normally this will also for the biggest part eliminate the frontal bounce. The heavier grain frangible could assist with reliability. They have less front end bounce when going to the chamber up the feed ramps out of the magazine. Sometimes going to an H-2 Buffer will help? Slows things down a little bit.
There is also sometimes a problem with side strikes on the target at 50+ yards. This is all due to the barrel twist if you ever experience this. The sintered frangible in the 55 gr rangeseem to shoot best across the board in the AR.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks sniper.

Is frangible the same as soft point, like the Ultramax .223 Remington Ammo – 55-Grain Soft-Point or is that a completely different item?

the manufacturer suggested not polishing but reshaping the ramps but I don't want to adapt the rifle JUST to accommodate that ammo type...
 

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What about the Hornady V-max range (or A-max or even Z-max for that matter:rolleyes:).

Its normally great to feed in fussy rifles.
 

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drvsafe and Remfire,

Frangible is a totally different type of ammunition. As stated it is comprised in this case of the sintered metal which is a powdered metal bullet bonded into a bullet. When it strikes anything hard like steel for instance it turns to powdered dust immediately. The other frangible is a copper powder bonded with a material like ceramic. When it strike a steel or hard target it also turns to dust. They are used in a lot of indoor ranges because they can sweep up the copper dust and sell it by the pound! For example using a frangible bullet I have stood with in three feet from a steel target and shot it. Not that I would recommend doing it! The bullet totally disintegrates on impact with not shrapnel! The bullets like the V-max and Ultra Max are of the regular ammunition family. They are regular bullets with a polymer center insert. And you would not dare shoot a metal or hard target at close range unless you want to get cut possibly or worse!
Hope that explains it a little more for you!

03
 

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check out my post towards the bottom with the quarter, how does that group look?

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f66/u-good-shot-show-ur-targets-videos-65563/index14.html#post882421
frangibles tend to have very minimal charges to prevent the bullets from vaporizing soon as they leave the barrel. they arent long range rounds. open your gas block some if yours is adjustable. using a light weight buffer may help with cycling. just dont forget to switch back for regular ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Sniper03 said:
drvsafe and Remfire,

Frangible is a totally different type of ammunition. As stated it is comprised in this case of the sintered metal which is a powdered metal bullet bonded into a bullet. When it strikes anything hard like steel for instance it turns to powdered dust immediately. The other frangible is a copper powder bonded with a material like ceramic. When it strike a steel or hard target it also turns to dust. They are used in a lot of indoor ranges because they can sweep up the copper dust and sell it by the pound! For example using a frangible bullet I have stood with in three feet from a steel target and shot it. Not that I would recommend doing it! The bullet totally disintegrates on impact with not shrapnel! The bullets like the V-max and Ultra Max are of the regular ammunition family. They are regular bullets with a polymer center insert. And you would not dare shoot a metal or hard target at close range unless you want to get cut possibly or worse!
Hope that explains it a little more for you!

03
Great explanation, I suppose I have to ask the guys at the range if the ultramax will be ok by them. they're concerned about their backstop taking on the force of the FMJ, so perhaps the Ultramax would be a happy medium..

JonM said:
frangibles tend to have very minimal charges to prevent the bullets from vaporizing soon as they leave the barrel. they arent long range rounds. open your gas block some if yours is adjustable. using a light weight buffer may help with cycling. just dont forget to switch back for regular ammo.
This may be an option as well in addition to polishing the feed ramp.
 

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This may be an option as well in addition to polishing the feed ramp.
i would not polish the feed ramps that can easily and likely make it worse.
 

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Maybe a dumb question, can you shoot hollowpoints or softpoints? They said no fmj, and frangible ammo is expensive.
 

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frang. 223

I'm in Florida and my local range buys their 223 from National Police Ammunition... out of Miami i think. I have a Colt 6920...1:7 twist and their 45g sintered product is solid out to almost 200 yards.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
primer1 said:
Maybe a dumb question, can you shoot hollowpoints or softpoints? They said no fmj, and frangible ammo is expensive.
The ultra max are soft point I am going to ask them if I can shoot them this week. Hollow points are a no go.

Zodiac131911 said:
Osha is making range workers were environmental suits to clean up lead and fining those without proper protection. That may be why they switched ammo on you. http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=22524
As far as I know it's been this way all along. Supposedly they're afraid for their back stop so that's their reasoning for the frangible. They allow you to zero with fmj presumably because you're limiting yourself to x amount of rounds down range to affect your zero. Once it's done you have to switch to frangible. I suppose maybe if I pal around with the RO's they may look the other way for me. I only shoot about 50-60 rounds of .223 when I go anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
can't shoot soft points.

I found these: Silver State Armory.

Anyone have any experience with the brand. I assume it's a 55 grain, so it should cycle better than those little stubby 42 grainers.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
can't shoot soft points.

I found these: Silver State Armory.

Anyone have any experience with the brand. I assume it's a 55 grain, so it should cycle better than those little stubby 42 grainers.
I went out to the range yesterday with these. I had to convince the RO that they were in fact frangible as they look and feel like regular 55 grain FMJ ammo.

but after much cajoling, I got the OK and they cycled perfectly through my PWS not a single malfunction as compared to the Fiocci 42 grain which gave me a 10% malfunction rate.

So, although they are a bit pricey even for frangible, I will be choosing the Silver State Armory (SSA) Ammunition 5.56x45mm NATO 55 Grain Barnes RRLP for my AR when I go to Shore Shot Range in Lakewood, NJ. Now if I can only get them to carry it in their shop...

Here is a 5 round group shot standing using my KZ sling:
 

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Looks like you got some keyholing going on. The one closest to the center of the x looks normal the rest look like there is some wobble happening
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Looks like you got some keyholing going on. The one closest to the center of the x looks normal the rest look like there is some wobble happening
could that be a function of the round itself, or can it be the crappy cardboard that was mostly full of holes and left the target practically waving like a flag?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
JonM, keep in mind these ARE frangible ammo, so maybe they're too soft???

What say you?
 
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