Fixing Death Row: Not a joke or forum game

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by Dillinger, Jun 24, 2010.

  1. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    So, Tango got me thinking in another thread about the Death Row Sentence and how incredibly LONG we end up housing, feeding and “caring” for those sentenced there.

    No, no offense to Barry Scheck, I am sure he is trying to buy his way into Heaven after the OJ fiasco, but his Justice League or whatever the hell it’s called is part of the problem. As is the ACLU, which was so perfectly described by Dennis Leary as not having A-C-L-U-E. :D

    So, our mission statement here Members of the Finest Gun Forum on the Interwebz, is to solve this issue once and for all. We must propose a change that is still in line with a possibly “wrongfully” convicted persons chance to gain justice, but we must keep in mind that somewhere a family, or families, are mourning whatever act brought this conviction. There must be balance, as Lady Justice indicates, so it must be fair and we must not lose sight of “What If”.

    As in WHAT IF it were me being the railroaded?

    I propose the start of our overhaul of Death Row as such:

    Any inmate who is currently on Death Row having served more than 10 years, OR has had AT LEAST one appeal, will have (30) working (Monday – Friday) days to present new evidence to the court in a district NOT associated with any previous action. This must be an independent review by someone with nothing to lose, politically, for overturning another judges’ ruling.
    • If no evidence is offered, of if the evidence offered is found to be just a Hail Mary attempt to stall the court, and Lady Justice, the person shall be put to death within (7) days of the ruling. Period.
    • If evidence presented proves that a mistake was made, or that new evidence does exist that is beneficial to the defendant, then the case will move to RETRIAL under the description below.
    • Should the outcome of the RETRIAL be in the Defendant’s favor, an impartial Prosecuting Attorney has the right to re-file charges, but in the meantime the defendant is free to go.
    Any inmate currently on Death Row with less than 10 years served, and has NOT had AT LEAST one appeal, will IMMEDIATELY be eligible for RETRIAL under the description below.
    • Should the outcome of the RETRIAL be the same, then the person shall be put to death within (7) days of the ruling. Period.
    • Should the outcome of the RETRIAL be in the Defendant’s favor, an impartial Prosecuting Attorney has the right to re-file charges, but in the meantime the defendant is free to go.
     
  2. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Any inmate currently serving a DEATH ROW sentence, but is named as a Defendant in any other DEATH ROW case SHALL NOT be excluded because of the time line of the second case. Once convicted of (1) DEATH ROW sentence, they are immediately eligible for RETRIAL as described below.
    • Should the outcome of the RETRIAL be the same, then the person shall be put to death within (7) days of the ruling. Period.
    • Should the outcome of the RETRIAL be in the Defendant’s favor they will immediately be reprimanded to the governing body of any other pending criminal case.

    Any inmate currently incarcerated pending their FIRST DEATH PENALTY trial shall be unaffected by this new overhaul of the system outside of the timelines that will be described below. This is still a country of innocent until proven guilty and we do not rush to judgment merely because we can.



    RETRIAL:

    The common problem with the SECOND or subsequent trials of someone from DEATH ROW is that they always seem to take place within the same community where the first conviction was obtained. While in theory this seems to make sense, I believe it actually helps the Liberals keep these douche bags alive longer. Judge number 2 will not reverse Judge number 1 because they golf together and are good old boys, so obviously this MUST be taken to the Supreme Court, where the backlog is another dozen years to be heard.

    Bullsh*t!!
     

  3. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Here is what I propose. Criminal is convicted in Boston (because lets face it those people are just criminal in their love for that stupid baseball team of theirs :D). Criminal is sentenced to death.

    Criminal’s Attorney (public or private) is now BOUND by LAW under the BAR that holds their license to this case, with caveats*

    The case is then transferred to a city in another state. A lottery can be worked out, or a city by city trade program, but either way, the second trial takes place in a locale that has NOTHING to do with the first trial. No one owes anyone a favor, no one is a grandson of a former this or niece to a former that of the first trial. This is a NEW second trial.

    *Prosecutor from the first trial meets with and advises new prosecutor. Defense Counsel either re-defends client or meets with and officially hands off defense to local defense counsel as approved by the court.

    Wait: This is going to cost too much money! Is it? What if you HAVE to do this as part of holding a license under ANY BAR, in any state? No town takes 200% more cases than they give up. No town is asked to take EVERY trial, nor are there any government kick backs to taking extra trials. This becomes a very Quid Pro Quo way of doing second trials.

    Second trial takes place within (12) months of the first trial. If the first city chosen can not meet that trial date, another venue is chosen, but the Right to a Speedy Trial SHALL NOT be waved. There is too much of that and it’s leading to billions of tax dollars being wasted on housing those that have been charged and/or convicted.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  4. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Would the Retrial violate that whole "double jeopardy" thing?


    As an aside, a reporter relative of mine recently did an article on some guy who has had MULTIPLE mistrials for a multiple murder & has been in jail over 10 years waiting for the courts to finish. I believe the loser was convicted on his most recent trip to court. (will look for link) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Flowers The reporter relative's writing is supposed to appear in a magazine called Reason, but i couldn't find the article.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  5. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Interesting, but I fear that is only phrasing. The "SECOND TRIAL" will be by request of the defense. If the convicted is willing to go with the first decision and be executed, there is no need for RETRIAL.

    If the person is found not guilty and is let free to go, the independent prosecutor must be able to show new evidence as would be the case normally.

    So, replace my wording as RETRIAL UNDER APPEAL and we should be square. Good catch. ;)
     
  6. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    I want to go on record as being against "Capital Punishment" and we should do away with "Death Row."

    The whole "Death Row" process is simply wasteful and should go green.

    "Death Row" should be renamed "Spare Parts" and run for-profit by Pep Boys!
     
  7. bigbad-ratman

    bigbad-ratman New Member

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    While we are at it, I think we should do away with "Life in prison without the possibility of parole." I think that is more of a drain on the system than deathrow. You are guilty enough to have to serve 350 years consecutively, elligible for parole in 150 years with good behavior? Here, we have a little something for you.
     
  8. WDB

    WDB New Member

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    JD I like the direction you suggest. To streamline the process how about anyone sentenced to death a second trial is automatic with in 12 months in a differerent county or state. All of the information from the first trial is used. If found guilty the second time the sentence is carried out in 48 hours. I would also add no plea deals for telling where the body is or providing details. Possibly a choice of how you wish to go if you provide the information or an extra week to make things right before you leave this world. If no cooperation then state choice how to put you down.

    After the 2nd conviction, the excuition should be available on PPV and tickets sold to view the excuition in person at the local sports arena. The money goes to the family of the victum and law enforcement. Something good should come from the bad.
     
  9. Glasshartt

    Glasshartt New Member

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    watch out JD :eek:
     
  10. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    Option 1

    If you commit a capitol crime where the death penalty applies and two credible witnesses testify that they saw you do it, then 13 days (I just like the number) following your conviction, you are put to death. The method of execution shall be the convicts choice of hanging, firing squad or the most expeditious method currently employed by the State in which the crime was committed.

    Option 2

    For those who are convicted by a preponderance of physical evidence, which may or may not include DNA, in a capitol crime where the death penalty applies you will be put to death 26 days following your conviction with one appeal which may be presented to the court within the first 13 days following conviction. Your appeal must bring new evidence to light which may reveal your innocence in the case. If your appeal is unsuccessful, refer to Option 1.
     
  11. Glasshartt

    Glasshartt New Member

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    I don't think so because they have already been convicted. Double Jeopardy is only a factor if the charges are dismissed or the defendant is found not guilty.
     
  12. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    DNA evidence, video evidence or confession get you to the front of the line.

    Any extraordinary event ( say, running through an Army post, blasting away, with 100+ witnesses, all unrelated, and all who can positively ID you), is given to a jury. If guilty is pronounced, you have a week.

    Any attempt to commit a terrorist attack, successful or not, also gets you there.

    The "Cruel and Unusual" clause is gone. A judge assigns one of 3 levels, based on the nature of the crime.

    Level 3- Decapitation

    Level 2- Firing squad, in conjunction with ballistic testing.

    Level 1- The South African Apartheid era "necklace", a tire is placed around your neck, filled with gas, and set ablaze.

    Rape- If convicted, and concluded beyond any reasonable doubt, victim's choice, up to, and including, death.
     
  13. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    That is exactly correct! If found not guilty then you can not be retried for the same crime.
     
  14. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I believe that is correct UNLESS there is new evidence introduced that changes the classification of the charges. From Violation of Civil Rights to Murder, or Attempted Murder to Murder for example. We had a case here in Washington State that was a big because it was bordering on "Double Jeopardy" but it finally went through on the second trial.

    I like the suggestions so far, but we need to keep in mind that there is a possibility for false accusations. I don't think (2) eyewitnesses is enough to go straight to the firing squad.

    Now, if you have 100+ as Benning has indicated, I think we can PROBABLY assume they are not all working together in some master plot to screw over that guy. :rolleyes:
     
  15. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Nice thread - I like it!

    A few thought to add:

    1. The "insanity" defense is not a defense. Being insane does not absolve you of guilt or assuage the victim(s) or survivors of the victim(s).

    2. Mechanisms commonly used by death-row inmates to incur delays such as hiring a lawyer, working with him or her for a year or two, then firing them right before a court date and scoring another year or two delay to bring the new lawyer up to speed are crap and must be disallowed. Unless there is physical evidence (eg: paperwork, video/audio recordings) showing an attorney is working against his/her client, or unless a credible third party witnesses an attorney doing that, the attorney cannot be fired.

    3. Any violent felony case, including murder, rape, arson, robbery and child abuse/molestation, are automatically capital offenses. Some non-violent felonies which result in the victim losing the ability to continue working (i.e. defamation of character which results in dismissal of his/her position and the inability to get rehired in a similar capacity, destruction of electronic data which results in a business going under, blinding or other mutilation that does not result in death but does result in the victim not being able to continue his profession, etc.) are capital offenses.

    4. Only in cases where there is video and audio evidence, conclusive DNA or fingerprint evidence, or multiple credible witnesses (that is, not fellow or rival gang members, but upstanding, productive members of society) may the death penalty be applied. Circumstantial evidence is insufficient to condemn someone to death.

    5. The methods of execution will be hanging or drowning. Ropes and water can be re-used. All other methods require needless taxpayer expenditure.
     
  16. pandamonium

    pandamonium New Member

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    I say firing squad and I'm sure they can get volunteers to donate bullets!

    Frivolous lawsuits are to be eliminated. no more lawsuits because his socks were scratchy, or his oatmeal was cold. This is merely a delay tactic.

    After arraignment all cases will go to trial within 6 months, stall tactics in the courtroom wont be tolerated.

    If convicted, appeals are presented within 30 days, as JD proposed, in another town, unrelated to the origional conviction.

    If found guilty again, execution is carried out within 10 days. Hanging or firing squad, those are the choices.

    Executions are televised to remind other dumb-a$$es the cost of their actions.

    Organs will be donated for transplant.

    This is a good thread, Gives me an idea for another. :cool:
     
  17. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Here is mine.

    1. you have a maximum of 1 year to file 3 appeals.
    2. After 3 appeals or 1 year you will be executed within 72 hours.
    3. You may choose how you die.
    a. electric chair
    b. lethal injection
    c. organ transplant
    4. To qualify for organ transplant you must be tested clean of all drugs and STD and other diseases.
    5. If you in any way step out of line while incarcerated you will lose one appeal per infraction.
    6. If you lose all your appeals then you will be executed within 24 hours of the last infraction.
    7. If you are on deathrow now you will be given 2 appeals within 1 year.
    8. After 1 year or 2 appeals you will be executed within 72 hours.
    9. If you chose organ transplant you will be tested and all usable organs will be used from your body at one time. You will be feed a proper diet and have monthly medical check ups. You will also be placed on a regimented exercise schedule. If you fail 2 check ups in a row or 3 in a year you will be taken off the organ transplant option and executed within 24 hours.
     
  18. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    I have a problem with specific timelines. Courts get backed up, you shouldn't be penalized because the state was to busy to deal with your appeal in the specified time.

    Removing appeals based on behavior sounds good but if someone is being railroaded by the system what's to stop the same system from making their job easier by claiming that the guy on death row did something and now he loses an appeal.

    Appeals for death row cases should be taken to the second highest court in the state on first appeal. Highest court in the state on the next appeal and the SCOTUS is always an option should they choose to take the final appeal. No reason to waste everyone's time when everyone involved know the appeals are going to end up at the top in the long run.

    If the convicted waives the appeal process, give them 24 hours and bring in an independent third party and video tape them declining the appeals process. After that the sentence should be carried out as soon as is convenient for the state. No need to make guards work overtime to meet a deadline.

    If any appeal is taking longer than 1 year due to the fault of the state or federal government, a fine of $1,000 per day should be taken from the offending court and paid directly to the victims family or to a general victims fund.
     
  19. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    Let's just go ahead & fix all future crime by arming the populance. Maybe we can add a law that says "Wounded people who are guilty of a Class One Felony at the time of wounding may Not receive medical care." Bet a lot of taxpayer money could be saved!
     
  20. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    You see by making all the appeals in a specific amount of time you will greatly speed up the process of the court system. there should be no such thing as a 8 or 9 week long trial. You get 3 days thats it if you can't put the FACTS out in that amount of time then piss off. There should be none of this BS about twisting statements. Facts only used in court. I don't care if a police officer that wrote the report has an STD from banging some hooker while on duty. Stick to the facts.


    Appeals for death row cases should be taken to the second highest court in the state on first appeal. Highest court in the state on the next appeal and the SCOTUS is always an option should they choose to take the final appeal. No reason to waste everyone's time when everyone involved know the appeals are going to end up at the top in the long run.


    Why? there is no need for all that. Your just going to slow down the process.