First bolt gun

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by TheDaggle, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. TheDaggle

    TheDaggle New Member

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    So I got a truck a couple weeks ago, I was putting all mine and my father's guns behind the seat to go up the mountain, and I noticed something alarming. There was room for more guns. This needs to be rectified immediately.
    I know I want an accurate rifle, I know I want to spend less than $2k all together, and I know I don't want to spend $4.00 per round to shoot it.
    Some research has brought my attention to the Savage 10 series, which seem to be an excellent value. The 10fcp HS Precision can be found with a sticker price under $900, has a stock from a respected manufacturer with factory aluminum bedding, bolt serialized and matched to the barrel, is chambered in comparatively cheap .308, and has positively glowing reviews.

    10fcphs.jpg

    Savage 10fcp HS precision

    For glassworks, I'm leaning towards Vortex. From what I can tell, they're in the right price/quality bracket for me. I'd like as much magnification and clarity as I can get without selling a kidney, so I think the Viper 6.5-20x50 is about what I'm looking for at $500.

    6.5-20viper.jpg

    Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50

    I've done a fair amount of web research here, but I have ZERO experience with bolt guns OR shooting beyond 150yds. What say ye rifle experts? Any alternatives I should consider? Anything I'm forgetting?
     
  2. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    That looks familiar Dag!! You'll love it! Very nice set up!
     

  3. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Dags - Given the criteria that you have stated and the package that you have found, I would say you have done very well.

    The only downside with the .308 is "long" range. This is not an 800-1000 yard cartridge and if you go into this purchase understanding that, you will be fine.

    What are you thinking for a scope base and rings?
     
  4. big shrek

    big shrek Well-Known Member

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    Actually, you might wanna go with a Marlin XS7 in .308, get a Boyd's Thumbhole stock,
    then spend the rest on a top-quality scope.

    You'll outshoot dang near everything with that setup...and if all you do is the Marlin & the Boyd's stock,
    same scope...you'll come out with $500 more in your pocket.
     
  5. TheDaggle

    TheDaggle New Member

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    Did you lose a similar rifle off the coast of Nicaragua? :p

    I'm not sure about that. After reading m14srock's thread about rings and torque, I'm realizing that there's alot more to it than just clamping the sucker down. Any suggestions?
     
  6. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    One of the more common things to do with a factory rifle is to get the scope mount holes drilled out one size, and insure they are 100% in line with the bore.

    A lot of stock screws are #6, and there is no guarantee that the holes are in line with the bore. One of the reasons you see quality glass and rings being lapped into place.

    Re-drilling to #8 screws in the correct environment allows you to have a true bore axis and mount up a quality scope base, preferably one that has 20MOA built into it.

    There are several models and all of them are better than just putting rings on your rifle out of the box.

    As for rings, there are a lot of really good ones out there. We use Badger Ord, TMS Heavy Duty, and recently PRI Tactical, but some of the higher end glass come with great scope rings, like the Leupold Mark IV.

    What kind of rings does the Vortex recommend?
     
  7. TheDaggle

    TheDaggle New Member

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    Vortex makes their own precision-matched rings, which I suspect are what they recommend. They do not make bases, however. What are the benefits of a "20 moa" base, and how much work is involved in putting all this together? Aside from re-drilling the holes, can I do this stuff myself or am I better off shelling out a couple hundred to have a smith do it?
     
  8. Squirrel_Slayer

    Squirrel_Slayer New Member

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    "The only downside with the .308 is "long" range. This is not an 800-1000 yard cartridge and if you go into this purchase understanding that, you will be fine."

    How did you come to the conclusion that the .308Win is not an effective long range caliber?
     
  9. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    That Vortex scope is good bang for the buck. Good choice there. For rings and Picatinny rail base I'd look at what Badger Ordance has to offer. There stuff is solid. .308 Win. is used by a number folks in the club I shoot with out to the 1000 yard line with no problems. You could eventually go to the "Dark Side" when the barrel wears out and rechamber it to a .260. Alot of .308 guys have done this with their bolt guns where I shoot and it works out quite well. If your going to go out to 1000 yards you'll want a +20MOA cant scope rail base. You'll still be able to zero at 100 yards with the +20 MOA base.
     
  10. TheDaggle

    TheDaggle New Member

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    There ya are :D.
    More specialized rounds are definitely a possibility in the future, my goal here is really just for me to cut my teeth on distance shooting.
    With the hardware more or less out of the way, what's a good way to get educated on the basics of riflery, shy of pricey professional instruction? My "range" is basically just a conveniently located pit in the side of a hill (as I'm sure my range etiquette betrayed :p), so I really don't come across a whole lot of other shooters from whom I could learn. Is there a series of books or anything you would recommend?
     
  11. Switchbarrel

    Switchbarrel New Member

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    Rings & Bases

    Don't forget about Ken Farrell, they (he) makes some very nice bases for Savage rifles...both tapered and non-tapered. He also has some heavy duty "tactical" style rings. I use the Burris Signature Zee rings on almost all of my rifles, I like having the ability to use the eccentric inserts to zero my scope or add more elevation if needed. Also, not marking up your scope tube is a nice bonus.

    Ken Farrell, Inc. -- Rifle Related Products

    -Rick
     
  12. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    The Vortex Rings will probably be O.K., however, I'm not familiar with them. Several companies make 20 MOA bases and they are mostly good stuff. On my build I used the McCanns Industries base, which was fairly inexpensive, and it works fine. Badger Industries seems to be a tad more stout. A 20 MOA base tips the objective end of your scope downwards form level and gives you 20 MOA more in elevation adjustment upward for the long range stuff. Putting this all togeather on your rifle is fairly easy and is something you should do yourself as you will learn a little and save money doing it yourself. As far as drilling out and tapping the threads for mounting the scope base, I would considedr that optional.

    Aside from a little blue Locktite for the screws that mount the scope base you'll need to level the crosshairs of your scope when mounting it. For that I use this handy little tool.

    http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/wheeler-engineering/catalog.asp?product=Level-Level-Level

    Midway USA sells them for $19.99 and it gets you level fairly quick.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  13. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    .308 Win. will do you just fine to cut your teeth on with this distance shooting. Black Hills and Federal just to name a couple offer target grade ammo in a couple or so grain weights for when you get further out in distance.

    I'm turely at a loss when it comes to books to reccomend for this endevour. I've been shooting since I was about 7 Y.O. and I learned from my dad and uncle. I also, unintentionally, learned some minor bad trigger and positional habits that never gave me a problem until I started shooting at and beyond 400 or so yards. Some years ago I attended a clinic by the Appleseed folks. It was fairly inexpensive and I learned quite a bit. The club I shoot with puts on a long range clinic once a year which I attended this year and it cost $60.00.

    If you could find a shooting range close by I would go there and ask them if theres a rifle club that shoots there for the kind of shooting you want to do and then make your introductions to them. Usually the folks in these clubs are very helpful for the guy or gal that wants to learn. IMO the best way to hone your skills is trigger time.

    I'm sure there is some good publications or instructional videos out there that will help but I just don't know which would be good ones. Hopefully one of the other members here will chime in and have a couple or so good reccomendations for this.
     
  14. Squirrel_Slayer

    Squirrel_Slayer New Member

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    Hey MRM, this long range shooting clinic that you are talking about for 60.00, is that out in Ione at Sac Valley? I might want to look into attending that to see if I can pick up some good pointers. And when you say long range, are we talking like 600 yards or all the way out to 1000? I don't have a rifle that will shoot out past 600 yards at the most.
     
  15. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Look at the ballistics. Taking a 600 yarder is a moon shot ( very high arcing trajectory ) and if you stretch that to 1,000 you are going to be cranking everything you got out of your scope.

    I would HIGHLY suggest you pick up a copy of The Ultimate Sniper by Major John Plaster ( Ret. ) You will learn a TON about the .308 round, what applications it is suited for, and not suited for, along with the history and why it holds the current "the military uses it it must be the best availabe round" mystique. ;)

    JD
     
  16. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    It's a bolt gun clinic and it is out to 1000 yards. Your rifle should be a sub MOA rifle to shoot with these guys. You can shoot with this club anytime after paying range fees at the public range and then $5.00 for practice sessions to the club when you get to the target pit area. Also, to get off the public ranges, you'll have to become a member of Sac. Valley. You'll need chamber open flag which are available at the main range building and a come up sheet for your rifle and ammo. If you don't have a come up sheet they will provide one for you. You'll need to know the muzzel velocity and the B.C. of your ammo or the brand and type of ammo you are using for them to figure this up for you. The clinic is usually in the Fall of the year and is put on by NCPPRC. The price may go up in 2011 but I dont think by much. They usually post the registration about May or so of the year and it has to be paid in advance. The clinic is limited to 60 shooters and it fills up fast. So if your interested get your money in quick after it is announced on their web site. It is at Sac. Valley off Ione Road. NCPPRC has a web site which announces their practice sessions, matches, and their clinic dates. They shoot long range (1000 yards), TBRC (Tactical bolt rifle competitions) and steel. I, at the present time, am only shooting the long range 1000 yard stuff. I'll be shooting the TBRC and steel later this year when my new more tactical like bolt rifle in a different caliber is done. (a bit lighter rifle with a shorter barrel) Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  17. Squirrel_Slayer

    Squirrel_Slayer New Member

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    Ah, thank you for for the info MRM. I'm not a member out there yet, but my dad is so I shoot wherever I want as a guest. They know him and I out there. I will join up the first of the year though. I don't have a bolt gun . . . yet. I wonder if they would be open to letting someone with a long range AR participate in one of their steel clinics or matches, which I am assuming takes place on the metal silhouette range. I did hit a ram a couple of times on Sunday morning, but my .223 AR would not even budge it. The boar and chickens are just too easy, and the turkeys are a bit of a challenge, but I hit them with regularity.
     
  18. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    You could probably shoot the steel range and there is other rifle clubs out there that shoot service rifles. If it's an AR you have, the clubs that use or allow their use in their shooting disiplins is what I'd be looking at.
     
  19. Squirrel_Slayer

    Squirrel_Slayer New Member

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    I will talk to the range master when I am out there again in a couple of weeks. I just have a hard time finding groups that shoot AR's that aren't carbines. Mine is strictly a bench gun, and I am not going to try and shoot a 15 pound AR standing.